Another '99 911 gone
09-23-2008, 03:56 PM
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Another '99 911 gone
I went ahead and actually traded my '99 in last week on a Jeep of all things. I was up to 101,000 miles, the car was in very good shape cosmetically and just about perfect mechanically. It was advertised for $23,000 and did not get a single response of any kind. I mean no one called or enquired about it at all. Advertising it was a complete waste of time.
I shopped it around for trade at 5 different dealers and 4 of them offered $15,000. I had one dealer offer $17,000 and luckily he had the Jeep I wanted. I ended up getting $17,500 cash for the trade which equates to $18,725 when you take the sales tax savings. I figured at best in a private sale I might get $21,000 or so, but it might take a long time to find the right buyer and I just did not want to go through that hassle. So I cut my losses and took it. The fact that I had to shell out about $600 in minor maintenace items during the 2 months I was looking to sell, made the decision easier. I also knew I was going to have to spring for new winter tires and the 105,000 mile service before too long. So the price I got was more in keeping with future cost advoidance.
In my case the miles really hurt. The fact that it was a two owner car with all of the service records made no difference at all. The car also had litronics, fab speed exhaust, short throw shifter, and a custom sound system. But when you go to trade or sell, nobody wants 101,000 miles. It is just a lousy time to try and sell a high mileage '99 911. When you advertise it and absolutely no one calls when it is at a low price, you really have to wonder.
I decided to sell because I was barely driving the car and I really needed some kind of a a hauler in the family mix. I still have a tricked up Audi A4 to play on although I will miss the Porsche power. With the race suspension, 19" Volks rims and brakes the Audi has though, I think it might actually handle better. I just need to chip it now.
But in all honesty the biggest reason for selling was that financially, as much as I love the Porsche, I did not want to be exposed to the heavy maintenance costs possible. And yes, fear of losing the engine played a part of the mind set. While it would not bother me to have to replace the engine, now is not a time to be worrying about shelling out $10-$15M for a new engine.
So now I am into a 2006 Jeep GC Limited I got at 10,000 miles at about half what the original owner paid. Plus I am now covered warranty wise out until 2014. It is nice to know no big unexpected bills are likely for the next 6 years. What amazed me was that Jeep offered me a life time engine, transmission, powertrain warranty on a used car. Image if you can Porsche offering such a thing on any of their cars - a lifetime guarantee on the engine, transmission, and powertrain. I don't think any of us would ever get rid of the car.
The Jeep has the Hemi engine so I am still well up in the upper levels of speed freaks on the road. I will just have to watch out for those corners when I am in the Jeep. It might be hard to finess all of the weight through the esses as nice as the Porsche did it.
I shopped it around for trade at 5 different dealers and 4 of them offered $15,000. I had one dealer offer $17,000 and luckily he had the Jeep I wanted. I ended up getting $17,500 cash for the trade which equates to $18,725 when you take the sales tax savings. I figured at best in a private sale I might get $21,000 or so, but it might take a long time to find the right buyer and I just did not want to go through that hassle. So I cut my losses and took it. The fact that I had to shell out about $600 in minor maintenace items during the 2 months I was looking to sell, made the decision easier. I also knew I was going to have to spring for new winter tires and the 105,000 mile service before too long. So the price I got was more in keeping with future cost advoidance.
In my case the miles really hurt. The fact that it was a two owner car with all of the service records made no difference at all. The car also had litronics, fab speed exhaust, short throw shifter, and a custom sound system. But when you go to trade or sell, nobody wants 101,000 miles. It is just a lousy time to try and sell a high mileage '99 911. When you advertise it and absolutely no one calls when it is at a low price, you really have to wonder.
I decided to sell because I was barely driving the car and I really needed some kind of a a hauler in the family mix. I still have a tricked up Audi A4 to play on although I will miss the Porsche power. With the race suspension, 19" Volks rims and brakes the Audi has though, I think it might actually handle better. I just need to chip it now.
But in all honesty the biggest reason for selling was that financially, as much as I love the Porsche, I did not want to be exposed to the heavy maintenance costs possible. And yes, fear of losing the engine played a part of the mind set. While it would not bother me to have to replace the engine, now is not a time to be worrying about shelling out $10-$15M for a new engine.
So now I am into a 2006 Jeep GC Limited I got at 10,000 miles at about half what the original owner paid. Plus I am now covered warranty wise out until 2014. It is nice to know no big unexpected bills are likely for the next 6 years. What amazed me was that Jeep offered me a life time engine, transmission, powertrain warranty on a used car. Image if you can Porsche offering such a thing on any of their cars - a lifetime guarantee on the engine, transmission, and powertrain. I don't think any of us would ever get rid of the car.
The Jeep has the Hemi engine so I am still well up in the upper levels of speed freaks on the road. I will just have to watch out for those corners when I am in the Jeep. It might be hard to finess all of the weight through the esses as nice as the Porsche did it.
09-23-2008, 05:26 PM
#2
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Well, I feel your pain and your happiness. I have a '99 C2 Coupe with all the really nice go-fast stuff, and only 41,000 miles. It is my daily driver and my weekend warrior at DE's.
I also have a 2005 JEEP Grand Cherokee Limited 4x4 with HEMI. It splits the daily driver routine with the 996, and tows my Donzi to the water on weekends.
I love both of these vehicles dearly. I use the JEEP and 996 about evenly. The JEEP only averages about 13.8 MPG on 89 Octane. It will run just fine on Regular 87, but the manual says that for towing to use Mid-Grade.
The 996 averages about 24 MPG doing the same daily service, and runs on Premium. I save money in the long run on gas by using the Porsche more than the JEEP. (Note: Your JEEP's 30,000 Mile Inspection will run you about $1,100. They don't tell you that in the sales department.)
I really enjoy driving the JEEP around town and on long trips. It is always my short-notice car. Or the one I am more willing to expose to strange parking lots.
One could perhaps argue that a very nice Cayenne S or GTS could do the job for both. But the Cayenne will cost more than the two cost me together, requires the Premium gas of the Porsche, and gets the mileage of the JEEP.
And I just can't see showing up in the pit lane at a DE in a Cayenne. Period.
I created a fun saying about my JEEP:
"There is no more manly, hairy-chested, testosterone-filled vehicle,
than a JEEP...
with a HEMI."
One could add: "...towing a DONZI."
Baseball or Football? Both. Offense or Defense? Both.
Bought the wife a new Honda Civic LX Coupe last summer in order to do my...uh...Civic duty.
I also have a 2005 JEEP Grand Cherokee Limited 4x4 with HEMI. It splits the daily driver routine with the 996, and tows my Donzi to the water on weekends.
I love both of these vehicles dearly. I use the JEEP and 996 about evenly. The JEEP only averages about 13.8 MPG on 89 Octane. It will run just fine on Regular 87, but the manual says that for towing to use Mid-Grade.
The 996 averages about 24 MPG doing the same daily service, and runs on Premium. I save money in the long run on gas by using the Porsche more than the JEEP. (Note: Your JEEP's 30,000 Mile Inspection will run you about $1,100. They don't tell you that in the sales department.)
I really enjoy driving the JEEP around town and on long trips. It is always my short-notice car. Or the one I am more willing to expose to strange parking lots.
One could perhaps argue that a very nice Cayenne S or GTS could do the job for both. But the Cayenne will cost more than the two cost me together, requires the Premium gas of the Porsche, and gets the mileage of the JEEP.
And I just can't see showing up in the pit lane at a DE in a Cayenne. Period.
I created a fun saying about my JEEP:
"There is no more manly, hairy-chested, testosterone-filled vehicle,
than a JEEP...
with a HEMI."
One could add: "...towing a DONZI."
Baseball or Football? Both. Offense or Defense? Both.
Bought the wife a new Honda Civic LX Coupe last summer in order to do my...uh...Civic duty.
09-23-2008, 05:48 PM
#3
Instructor
For anyone else in this situation, allow me to be the first vulture to suggest that you may want to downgrade some of your goodies before trade-in (eg. litronics, wheels, etc) to re-coup some of those costs. I don't know if the dealer would give you any less (great example would be clear headlights vs. amber ones).
09-23-2008, 06:26 PM
#4
I agree I would have put it all back to as stock as possible and sold all the goodies here there everywhere. You would have gotten the same deal and got a few $$$ back from a parts sale
I do think you made a wise choice selling the Pcar with that many miles.....I would not regret it at all. The way these cars are tanking in price you can always get another low mileage NA or TT at a fantastic deal another time
I do think you made a wise choice selling the Pcar with that many miles.....I would not regret it at all. The way these cars are tanking in price you can always get another low mileage NA or TT at a fantastic deal another time
09-23-2008, 10:57 PM
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Just as an FYI I got $21500 for my 99 with 102k miles last week. It was actually bought by the GM of a local dealership finally, but I was averaging 2-3 calls a day on it. And of course several no-shows, tons of tire-kickers, and several spam emails every day. Took about 3-4 weeks to sell but I started out listing it at $26k. I posted on craigslist and ebay. Sorry you had to end up trading in but I sold mine for many of the same reasons as you....... Now I'm in search of my next car. So anyone know where I can get a 996TT for $21500? 
09-24-2008, 01:43 AM
#7
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eBay FTW. Might have taken a couple of weeks, but the interest would have been there. No reason to give these cars away quite yet...
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09-24-2008, 10:08 AM
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My feeling was that as long as I could get within $2-$3M of what I thought a private sale would yield, avoiding the hassle of selling made the loss acceptable. I would not have taken $15,000 on a trade since that would have been too big a loss. This was my seventh Porsche and I know what a hassle it can be trying to sell a Porsche. You generally get two kinds of buyers - the purists who are looking for perfection and will drive you nuts on the details and the totally ignorant who would probably want to put spinners on the wheels. I guess I would rather sell to the purist, but it can be painful dealing with them.
The pity is that they will probably just load my car on a truck and take it to the auction and it will end up on some used car lot someplace. There is going to be a lucky buyer out there who gets a good car but they will get it without any history which is where the real value of that particular car is. I gave the salesman the maintenance records, but they will only use them if they try to retail the car on their lot
I will keep my eyes open here to see is some query about my car ever shows up. Most likely though it will not end up with an enthusiast. The price point is going to put it out there with some kid or new guy who really does not know much about Porsches.
The pity is that they will probably just load my car on a truck and take it to the auction and it will end up on some used car lot someplace. There is going to be a lucky buyer out there who gets a good car but they will get it without any history which is where the real value of that particular car is. I gave the salesman the maintenance records, but they will only use them if they try to retail the car on their lot
I will keep my eyes open here to see is some query about my car ever shows up. Most likely though it will not end up with an enthusiast. The price point is going to put it out there with some kid or new guy who really does not know much about Porsches.
09-26-2008, 04:49 AM
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09-26-2008, 09:43 AM
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I would have loved a Cayenne Turbo S but you can't find any decent low mileage ones at anywhere near the price you can pick up a fully loaded low mileage Jeep GC for. I have to give Jeep credit, with a Hemi the Jeep is not going to be embarassed by too many cars on the road. I will always give deference though to a Cayenne Turbo S though.
09-26-2008, 11:44 AM
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Seriously guys... let's step back for a minute... $17K for a 911... We're talking about a 0-62 under 5sec... best handling car under $90K etc...
As a reference, a brand new toyota corrola goes for $20K - I only have one word for that: WTF
As a reference, a brand new toyota corrola goes for $20K - I only have one word for that: WTF
09-26-2008, 02:45 PM
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I think the problem is the fear of the engine going bust and just the general impression that maintenance is horribly expensive.
When I bought my car 3 years ago, I thought it would really hold its value better. I also confess that when I bought it, I was more or less ignorant about the engine reliability issue. I was buying a CPO car and was not worrying about maintenance costs for two years. And since it was my 7th Porsche, I thought I knew what I was getting into. And my car was reasonably reliable during the whole time I owned it. But that nagging fear of a catatrosphic repair bill just kept nagging away in the back of my mind. It wasn't the money so much as the fact that compared to other cars, the stakes were so much higher.
I am sure I will be back in a Porsche eventually. My usual pattern is have one for 3 or 4 years and then go without for 3 or 4 more years before coming back. I will probably wait for the 997's to get a bit more affordable. I would never buy a new Porsche though. The intitial depreciation hit is just insane. There are too many nice used cars out there. Let someone else pay that hit.
When I bought my car 3 years ago, I thought it would really hold its value better. I also confess that when I bought it, I was more or less ignorant about the engine reliability issue. I was buying a CPO car and was not worrying about maintenance costs for two years. And since it was my 7th Porsche, I thought I knew what I was getting into. And my car was reasonably reliable during the whole time I owned it. But that nagging fear of a catatrosphic repair bill just kept nagging away in the back of my mind. It wasn't the money so much as the fact that compared to other cars, the stakes were so much higher.
I am sure I will be back in a Porsche eventually. My usual pattern is have one for 3 or 4 years and then go without for 3 or 4 more years before coming back. I will probably wait for the 997's to get a bit more affordable. I would never buy a new Porsche though. The intitial depreciation hit is just insane. There are too many nice used cars out there. Let someone else pay that hit.
09-26-2008, 03:41 PM
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Dear Mr. Cayenne Turbo S owner,
Been there, done that.
You have to be freaking kidding! Right? You aren't serious. Right?
First year of depreciation alone on that will buy me a brand spanking NEW JEEP Grand Cheerokee with HEMI.
It won't tow any more than my JEEP, won't get as good (? Relative here anyway) gas mileage, costs 3 times as much, insurance out of sight, and, finally, just exactly WHERE in North America can I drive that vehicle to its fullest potential? Especially if I want to "experience" that 10MM drop in the suspension at 140MPH? The soccer field parking lot?
Sorry. It is Friday afternoon and I just could NOT help myself. I had the right to remain silent...But I did not have the ability...
uuuhhh...uhhh... BWAaahHAHAHAHAHA
Later that same day...
Okay, it has been a few hours since I wrote the above. I have collected myself, and I am truly sorry if I offended anyone, including, and specifically SNAPROLL, I apologize to you.
I do want to say that in my personal opinion, warped and wrong as it may be, I do not believe any Cayenne meets my criteria for "hairy-chested, etc." unless that hairy chest is a result of an unbuttoned silk shirt and covered with gold chains. I never see Cayenne's out muddin'.
By the way, I am a MAJOR Cayenne FAN. I wrote the very first ever Cayenne Tech Quiz at a PCA Parade for the Tampa Parade a few years ago. I think the Cayenne GTS is the best of the breed when it comes to SUV's. The Cayenne Turbo S is the best successor to the long ago Lamborghini LM002.
But the JEEP has a history dating back to WWII. Cayenne has a history dating back to IRAQ II. NO Cayenne groups form. No Cayenne groups do annual gatherings for the sole pupose of going offroad.
And the HEMI engine name and mystique are totally undeniable.
And I don't think my "saying" applies to Ford F3500 Dullaly Duramax Diesels, either. Yup, they are definitely very big trucks...
And I just wanted to give a brother a lift, for giving up his Porsche for a JEEP SUV. Especially since I stand very close to his situation.
Been there, done that.
You have to be freaking kidding! Right? You aren't serious. Right?
First year of depreciation alone on that will buy me a brand spanking NEW JEEP Grand Cheerokee with HEMI.
It won't tow any more than my JEEP, won't get as good (? Relative here anyway) gas mileage, costs 3 times as much, insurance out of sight, and, finally, just exactly WHERE in North America can I drive that vehicle to its fullest potential? Especially if I want to "experience" that 10MM drop in the suspension at 140MPH? The soccer field parking lot?
Sorry. It is Friday afternoon and I just could NOT help myself. I had the right to remain silent...But I did not have the ability...
uuuhhh...uhhh... BWAaahHAHAHAHAHA
Later that same day...
Okay, it has been a few hours since I wrote the above. I have collected myself, and I am truly sorry if I offended anyone, including, and specifically SNAPROLL, I apologize to you.
I do want to say that in my personal opinion, warped and wrong as it may be, I do not believe any Cayenne meets my criteria for "hairy-chested, etc." unless that hairy chest is a result of an unbuttoned silk shirt and covered with gold chains. I never see Cayenne's out muddin'.
By the way, I am a MAJOR Cayenne FAN. I wrote the very first ever Cayenne Tech Quiz at a PCA Parade for the Tampa Parade a few years ago. I think the Cayenne GTS is the best of the breed when it comes to SUV's. The Cayenne Turbo S is the best successor to the long ago Lamborghini LM002.
But the JEEP has a history dating back to WWII. Cayenne has a history dating back to IRAQ II. NO Cayenne groups form. No Cayenne groups do annual gatherings for the sole pupose of going offroad.
And the HEMI engine name and mystique are totally undeniable.
And I don't think my "saying" applies to Ford F3500 Dullaly Duramax Diesels, either. Yup, they are definitely very big trucks...
And I just wanted to give a brother a lift, for giving up his Porsche for a JEEP SUV. Especially since I stand very close to his situation.
Last edited by Thundertub; 09-26-2008 at 10:33 PM.
09-26-2008, 11:29 PM
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Having owned almost as many Jeeps as Porsches, I know that both marques possess fervent followers. It is kind of hard to compare a Jeep to a Porsche. They really don't fill the same space. I know the Cayenne is a really nice SUV, but if you have to really go off road, lets be realistic - you are probably going to get further in a trail rated Jeep.
On the cost issue, I just ran a 500 mile search in Autotrader on 2006 Cayennes. The average price is $47,000 with a high of $89,000. My Jeep GC Limited with 10,000 miles at $21,000 with 6 more years of warranty would seem to win that equation hands down. And my experience with past Jeeps is that they are normally mostly trouble free, but even when something does break most anyone can fix it and the cost is not outlandish.
Now I just need to wait for the price of 997's to come down a bit more.
On the cost issue, I just ran a 500 mile search in Autotrader on 2006 Cayennes. The average price is $47,000 with a high of $89,000. My Jeep GC Limited with 10,000 miles at $21,000 with 6 more years of warranty would seem to win that equation hands down. And my experience with past Jeeps is that they are normally mostly trouble free, but even when something does break most anyone can fix it and the cost is not outlandish.
Now I just need to wait for the price of 997's to come down a bit more.
09-27-2008, 06:58 AM
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Dear Mr. Cayenne Turbo S owner,
Been there, done that.
You have to be freaking kidding! Right? You aren't serious. Right?
First year of depreciation alone on that will buy me a brand spanking NEW JEEP Grand Cheerokee with HEMI.
It won't tow any more than my JEEP, won't get as good (? Relative here anyway) gas mileage, costs 3 times as much, insurance out of sight, and, finally, just exactly WHERE in North America can I drive that vehicle to its fullest potential? Especially if I want to "experience" that 10MM drop in the suspension at 140MPH? The soccer field parking lot?
Been there, done that.
You have to be freaking kidding! Right? You aren't serious. Right?
First year of depreciation alone on that will buy me a brand spanking NEW JEEP Grand Cheerokee with HEMI.
It won't tow any more than my JEEP, won't get as good (? Relative here anyway) gas mileage, costs 3 times as much, insurance out of sight, and, finally, just exactly WHERE in North America can I drive that vehicle to its fullest potential? Especially if I want to "experience" that 10MM drop in the suspension at 140MPH? The soccer field parking lot?
I've driven a friend's GC with a hemi, and an '08 Turbo at a dealer, and the Jeep came in a poor second on acceleration and handling.
First, there are hemis and there are hemis. The 5.7 producing 330 HP is a nothingburger, not even worthy of the name. The only real hemi is the SRT 6.1 putting out 425 HP. If depreciation is a factor in whether or not you buy a vehicle, better stick to Hondas. When we got our '02 Carrera we didn't look to see what resale would be like - we wanted the car, we liked the performance and that was enough. You don't need a hemi or a turbo to get somewhere, but for those of us who enjoy the journey as much as the destination, the pleasure of the drive outweighs the cost.
Towing? I don't need it. I do need to transport two to four adults and baggage comfortably on long trips, and the Turbo S handles that chore impeccably while still being a kick in the butt to drive. Didn't want to wait on a Panamera, which didn't look that good based on supposed spy photos in a euro mag.
Mileage is similar if you use the 5.7 jeep as the standard - the SRT gets about 5MPG less than the Turbo S on the highway while making 125 less HP.
Insurance more expensive? Yeah, so what? You could save a lot of money on gas by not taking the Donzi out (God bless Aronow, wherever he is), but you do. Kind of the same thing here - I enjoy the vehicle so the insurance is just part of the toll.
And finally, if the Turbo S is too much to be turned loose here in North America, the same can be said for the jeep (at least, the SRT), which will just take longer to get to where the Turbo S had already been.
Jeeps are fine vehicles and if they fill your needs, great. Our needs are strictly street oriented and nothing we've looked at or driven comes close to the Cayenne.