FINAL UPDATE: J3 Motorsports / Chads996 Custom oil baffles upgrade - PHOTOS
02-26-2008, 09:42 PM
#31
Racer
Chad, new posting to this site... not new to designing parts at a grassroots level like yourself. Great work here!
You should talk to the guys who manufacture these now and see if they would be willing to do some instrument testing by datalogging the oil pressure on a road course with DOT R's or slicks. My assumption is it would be pretty easy to change the baffle out at the track. If effective, it would really ease folks concerns and be a pretty easy experiment to show before and after.
On edit, see Chad duplicated the X51 baffles, eliminating any need for flow analysis of the windows.
Have folks looked at using an accusump in addition to something like this to prevent any chance of oil starvation?(if theres room for one)
David
You should talk to the guys who manufacture these now and see if they would be willing to do some instrument testing by datalogging the oil pressure on a road course with DOT R's or slicks. My assumption is it would be pretty easy to change the baffle out at the track. If effective, it would really ease folks concerns and be a pretty easy experiment to show before and after.
On edit, see Chad duplicated the X51 baffles, eliminating any need for flow analysis of the windows.
Have folks looked at using an accusump in addition to something like this to prevent any chance of oil starvation?(if theres room for one)
David
Last edited by David Borden; 02-27-2008 at 12:15 AM. Reason: edit based on clarification Chads mod duplicates the X51 baffle.
02-26-2008, 10:18 PM
#32
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Food for thought
I have been noticing, on my track videos, with my
02 C4 with x51 pan addition to stock non X51 motor w/ PSS9, sway's and Hoosier R6
As the turn progresses in the videos the rpm will stay constant but the oil will start at 5 and drop to 2.5 to 3 then bounce back up to 5 on exit of turn: average low seems to be 3 in videos
The more G's (personal feel in the seat, not metered) the lower the oil #
The shorter or longer the turn is, this is proportional to the time at the low point on the oil gage
Jerry
I have been noticing, on my track videos, with my
02 C4 with x51 pan addition to stock non X51 motor w/ PSS9, sway's and Hoosier R6
As the turn progresses in the videos the rpm will stay constant but the oil will start at 5 and drop to 2.5 to 3 then bounce back up to 5 on exit of turn: average low seems to be 3 in videos
The more G's (personal feel in the seat, not metered) the lower the oil #
The shorter or longer the turn is, this is proportional to the time at the low point on the oil gage
Jerry
02-26-2008, 10:20 PM
#33
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
I certainly don't think that Porsche engineers are "all knowing." I'm not sure why you would assume that. And nobody doesn't "get it."
I'll be putting the factory X51 pan this summer because up in the canyon runs that I do, I've pulled hard g's and have seen smoke from startup as well even in my 3.6L. It's not just being a "track guy," a wanna-be Hakkinen, or being "mechanically inclined."
Realistically speaking, has there been documented instances out there regarding oil starvation at the track and/or prevention of such simply from a baffle change? (Just trying to be the devil's advocate here).
Like Speed Demon said... for those who will end up needing an upgraded oil pan, it's either the X51 version, which includes the oil pan AND the baffles... ($200 for both) or this version, which is just the baffle ($200 baffle only).
STILL the x51 route seems cheaper. If you're pulling enough g's to warrant an upgraded oil pan than the factory x51, then maybe you'd need a dry-sump engine instead.
I'll be putting the factory X51 pan this summer because up in the canyon runs that I do, I've pulled hard g's and have seen smoke from startup as well even in my 3.6L. It's not just being a "track guy," a wanna-be Hakkinen, or being "mechanically inclined."
Realistically speaking, has there been documented instances out there regarding oil starvation at the track and/or prevention of such simply from a baffle change? (Just trying to be the devil's advocate here).
Like Speed Demon said... for those who will end up needing an upgraded oil pan, it's either the X51 version, which includes the oil pan AND the baffles... ($200 for both) or this version, which is just the baffle ($200 baffle only).
STILL the x51 route seems cheaper. If you're pulling enough g's to warrant an upgraded oil pan than the factory x51, then maybe you'd need a dry-sump engine instead.
Some of you are obviously "not" getting it.
What has been made is a duplicate of the X51 baffling. The same dimensions, same teflon seals and the same flow characteristics as the X51. The only...(and I really do mean ONLY) difference are the metal flaps. THAT IS IT. This was discussed on ALL levels about the benefits vs the detractors. The bene's are simple. Longevity and piece of mind on the track. Not to mention, the X51 pan is really not needed. Even as Paul said, the X51 baffles will simply bolt on to your existing pan. Porsche simply does not sell the baffles. So...why not make a more robust X51 baffle kit that has metal doors? And...make it cheaper to purchase? Sounds like a winner in my book...
Do I need to test it? No... Why? It is the X51 baffle. Period. Factory tested and obviously approved.
Why metal doors? Simple. Metal lasts longer in the harsh high temp conditions in the pan than that of the rubber doors. (Proven fact, rubber breaks down over time in a hot and cold environment)
How do we know this? Numerous Motorsports team technicians back this up and advise on this modification for track duty on both 3.4L and 3.6L motors.
Is the horse now beaten?....yes...yes he is.
C.
02-26-2008, 10:25 PM
#34
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Side note on the 3.4L motors:
The oiling starvation issue on the 3.4L motors IS documented by Porsche Motorsports. The X51 and the Motorsports versions of the 2 stage oiling scavenge pump and return line is simply the best thing you can do the motor. No more oil pressure drops, no more worry. Done.
This has been done on my car.
Now what about the 3.6L? Porsche has improved the oil flow characteristics on the heads of these motors. An oiling kit is not available (AFAIK), however...if someone finds one, please inform the masses as I am sure some out there would like to have this installed.
I offer my knowledge and advice as a track enthusiast to another. I am a guy who has fabricated parts and components in the past and I am not afraid of testing them. Besides...it's a car. If it goes Ka-put, I fix it.
And.....I'm spent.
C.
The oiling starvation issue on the 3.4L motors IS documented by Porsche Motorsports. The X51 and the Motorsports versions of the 2 stage oiling scavenge pump and return line is simply the best thing you can do the motor. No more oil pressure drops, no more worry. Done.
This has been done on my car.
Now what about the 3.6L? Porsche has improved the oil flow characteristics on the heads of these motors. An oiling kit is not available (AFAIK), however...if someone finds one, please inform the masses as I am sure some out there would like to have this installed.
I offer my knowledge and advice as a track enthusiast to another. I am a guy who has fabricated parts and components in the past and I am not afraid of testing them. Besides...it's a car. If it goes Ka-put, I fix it.
And.....I'm spent.
C.
Last edited by Chads996; 02-28-2008 at 09:24 AM.
02-26-2008, 11:40 PM
#35
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If you don't like what is being offered simply don't buy it. I don't see Chad "pushing" anything, merely providing an option. In my opinion the guy has opened himself up to criticism and possibly ridicule on a site he frequents. What's his motivation?
"Becoming something very bad very fast" is ludicrous. This is a hobby. There's people dying out there. Perspective my friend.... perspective.
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02-27-2008, 12:10 AM
#36
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
If you don't like what is being offered simply don't buy it. I don't see Chad "pushing" anything, merely providing an option. In my opinion the guy has opened himself up to criticism and possibly ridicule on a site he frequents. What's his motivation?
"Becoming something very bad very fast" is ludicrous. This is a hobby. There's people dying out there. Perspective my friend.... perspective.
"Becoming something very bad very fast" is ludicrous. This is a hobby. There's people dying out there. Perspective my friend.... perspective.
Amen...brother and thank you. Beginning to think the very same thing.
C.
02-27-2008, 12:38 AM
#37
Banned
Having read most of your other posts on various topics, I am not the least bit surprised by your contrarian view. ***** and sense have nothing to do with this matter.
If you don't like what is being offered simply don't buy it. I don't see Chad "pushing" anything, merely providing an option. In my opinion the guy has opened himself up to criticism and possibly ridicule on a site he frequents. What's his motivation?
"Becoming something very bad very fast" is ludicrous. This is a hobby. There's people dying out there. Perspective my friend.... perspective.
If you don't like what is being offered simply don't buy it. I don't see Chad "pushing" anything, merely providing an option. In my opinion the guy has opened himself up to criticism and possibly ridicule on a site he frequents. What's his motivation?
"Becoming something very bad very fast" is ludicrous. This is a hobby. There's people dying out there. Perspective my friend.... perspective.
to date, no testing data has been offered as to th durability, reliability, efficacy of this part. are you guys seeing the emperor naked or with clothes on?
02-27-2008, 11:57 PM
#38
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and i won't buy it and i'll continue to post my thoughts since this very forum is about typing out, sharing thoughts on the subject matter. and yes, of course perspective... i'm all about it, what about u? this thread isn't talking about solving world hunger and getting rid of malaria.
to date, no testing data has been offered as to th durability, reliability, efficacy of this part. are you guys seeing the emperor naked or with clothes on?
to date, no testing data has been offered as to th durability, reliability, efficacy of this part. are you guys seeing the emperor naked or with clothes on?
Good.
Last I checked no testing data is offered on the X51 upgrade. Anecdotal data you say? Heresay, I say. Porsche is very closed lipped about the need or effect of this upgrade. The only difference is you might think that you could get your money back from Porsche if the pan didn't work as advertised. Call me if you can accomplish that and I will post my ultimate praise to you on this very site.
Peace, B. choi.......peace my brother. <exhale>
02-28-2008, 07:27 AM
#39
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I have an 02 996 with the 3.6l engine, and am considering track use. Questions I would love to have answered are:
1. Does the 3.6 litre engine have extra oil scavenge pump(s) in the head?
2. Is the X51 upgrade from Porsche just the baffle kit, or are there other modifications to the engine that work in concert with the baffles.
3. If one just upgrades the baffle (either Porsche or Chad's version) in a 3.6l engine, are there other mods that should be done as well to minimise the chance of oil surge, or will the baffle be sufficient?
Thanks Chad for an interesting thread and topic.
1. Does the 3.6 litre engine have extra oil scavenge pump(s) in the head?
2. Is the X51 upgrade from Porsche just the baffle kit, or are there other modifications to the engine that work in concert with the baffles.
3. If one just upgrades the baffle (either Porsche or Chad's version) in a 3.6l engine, are there other mods that should be done as well to minimise the chance of oil surge, or will the baffle be sufficient?
Thanks Chad for an interesting thread and topic.
02-28-2008, 09:23 AM
#40
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
I have an 02 996 with the 3.6l engine, and am considering track use. Questions I would love to have answered are:
1. Does the 3.6 litre engine have extra oil scavenge pump(s) in the head?
2. Is the X51 upgrade from Porsche just the baffle kit, or are there other modifications to the engine that work in concert with the baffles.
3. If one just upgrades the baffle (either Porsche or Chad's version) in a 3.6l engine, are there other mods that should be done as well to minimise the chance of oil surge, or will the baffle be sufficient?
Thanks Chad for an interesting thread and topic.
1. Does the 3.6 litre engine have extra oil scavenge pump(s) in the head?
2. Is the X51 upgrade from Porsche just the baffle kit, or are there other modifications to the engine that work in concert with the baffles.
3. If one just upgrades the baffle (either Porsche or Chad's version) in a 3.6l engine, are there other mods that should be done as well to minimise the chance of oil surge, or will the baffle be sufficient?
Thanks Chad for an interesting thread and topic.
C.
430, 996, baffle, baffles, irksome, j3, ml, motorsport, motorsports, oil, pan, porshaw, prevention, starvation, x51
