Intermittent RMS leak?
01-21-2008, 04:16 PM
#31
What a thread! Six pages on starting a car? Geez...
The idea of 'warming up' a car is premised on some things that aren't true of cars anymore... fuel mixture is managed for us now, engines can oil themselves almost immediately down to ludicrously low temps, and so on. Meanwhile, warming an engine up under load ensures that it warms up more uniformly. Warming it up while sitting still idle doesn't. And when your block is made of aluminum alloy rather than cast iron, I figure avoiding uneven heat distribution is a good idea.
Then add the bonus of warming drivetrain fluids up at the same time as the engine - and that transmission case is also alloy, btw - and it's a pretty strong argument, IMHO. Let's face it, the only fluids that are going to warm up while idling are oil and coolant. Everything else is cold until it starts moving. The manuals for our Rover, Mini and Toyota all say the same thing... start and drive.
I get my work done at Engineered Automotive. Hardcore Porsche guys with great credentials, and they treat every car as if it was being race-prepped. They aren't cheap, but I love the service and quality of workmanship.
No hard feelings here... you have to try harder than that to **** me off! Just ask... oh, never mind..
The idea of 'warming up' a car is premised on some things that aren't true of cars anymore... fuel mixture is managed for us now, engines can oil themselves almost immediately down to ludicrously low temps, and so on. Meanwhile, warming an engine up under load ensures that it warms up more uniformly. Warming it up while sitting still idle doesn't. And when your block is made of aluminum alloy rather than cast iron, I figure avoiding uneven heat distribution is a good idea.
Then add the bonus of warming drivetrain fluids up at the same time as the engine - and that transmission case is also alloy, btw - and it's a pretty strong argument, IMHO. Let's face it, the only fluids that are going to warm up while idling are oil and coolant. Everything else is cold until it starts moving. The manuals for our Rover, Mini and Toyota all say the same thing... start and drive.
I get my work done at Engineered Automotive. Hardcore Porsche guys with great credentials, and they treat every car as if it was being race-prepped. They aren't cheap, but I love the service and quality of workmanship.
No hard feelings here... you have to try harder than that to **** me off! Just ask... oh, never mind..
01-21-2008, 04:30 PM
#32
Race Car
What a thread! Six pages on starting a car? Geez...
The idea of 'warming up' a car is premised on some things that aren't true of cars anymore... fuel mixture is managed for us now, engines can oil themselves almost immediately down to ludicrously low temps, and so on. Meanwhile, warming an engine up under load ensures that it warms up more uniformly. Warming it up while sitting still idle doesn't. And when your block is made of aluminum alloy rather than cast iron, I figure avoiding uneven heat distribution is a good idea.
Then add the bonus of warming drivetrain fluids up at the same time as the engine - and that transmission case is also alloy, btw - and it's a pretty strong argument, IMHO. Let's face it, the only fluids that are going to warm up while idling are oil and coolant. Everything else is cold until it starts moving. The manuals for our Rover, Mini and Toyota all say the same thing... start and drive.
I get my work done at Engineered Automotive. Hardcore Porsche guys with great credentials, and they treat every car as if it was being race-prepped. They aren't cheap, but I love the service and quality of workmanship.
No hard feelings here... you have to try harder than that to **** me off! Just ask... oh, never mind..
The idea of 'warming up' a car is premised on some things that aren't true of cars anymore... fuel mixture is managed for us now, engines can oil themselves almost immediately down to ludicrously low temps, and so on. Meanwhile, warming an engine up under load ensures that it warms up more uniformly. Warming it up while sitting still idle doesn't. And when your block is made of aluminum alloy rather than cast iron, I figure avoiding uneven heat distribution is a good idea.
Then add the bonus of warming drivetrain fluids up at the same time as the engine - and that transmission case is also alloy, btw - and it's a pretty strong argument, IMHO. Let's face it, the only fluids that are going to warm up while idling are oil and coolant. Everything else is cold until it starts moving. The manuals for our Rover, Mini and Toyota all say the same thing... start and drive.
I get my work done at Engineered Automotive. Hardcore Porsche guys with great credentials, and they treat every car as if it was being race-prepped. They aren't cheap, but I love the service and quality of workmanship.
No hard feelings here... you have to try harder than that to **** me off! Just ask... oh, never mind..
I am not arguing whether you should warm your engine up by idling or by driving, just that there is little difference as far as the engine and transmission are concerned.
01-21-2008, 06:23 PM
#33
Three Wheelin'
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Like I said in my previous post, your transmission fluid will warmup just fine while idling. There is also no more or no less chance of hot spots whether you are idling or cruising. Both the oil and coolant see to that.
I am not arguing whether you should warm your engine up by idling or by driving, just that there is little difference as far as the engine and transmission are concerned.
I am not arguing whether you should warm your engine up by idling or by driving, just that there is little difference as far as the engine and transmission are concerned.
The idea is not that it hurts your car to warm up via idle, but that it is *not necessary* to warm up your car by idling.
This actually goes back to days of carburetors, when you did have to warm up in the driveway or the motor would stall when you stopped.
01-21-2008, 06:37 PM
#34
Anyway, this is one of those situations where, given the wildly opposing points of view and conjectural support here on the internets, it seems smart to default to the manual. And the manual does not say you MAY drive off shortly after starting the car. It says you SHOULD. Good enough for me.
01-21-2008, 10:02 PM
#36
Burning Brakes
"You should drive off shortly after you start your car" How is shortly defined? 1min, 2mins......?
Given what you've said in previous threads about the cooling system, I find this hard to reconcile.
Anyway, this is one of those situations where, given the wildly opposing points of view and conjectural support here on the internets, it seems smart to default to the manual. And the manual does not say you MAY drive off shortly after starting the car. It says you SHOULD. Good enough for me.
Anyway, this is one of those situations where, given the wildly opposing points of view and conjectural support here on the internets, it seems smart to default to the manual. And the manual does not say you MAY drive off shortly after starting the car. It says you SHOULD. Good enough for me.
01-21-2008, 11:08 PM
#37
"Do not let engine idle to warm up."
It then goes on to say you should keep it under 4200rpm for five minutes.
"Do not..." seems pretty clear to me. Personally, I'm with the 'as long as it takes to do up your seatbelt' gang.
01-22-2008, 08:17 PM
#38
Race Director
The problem is Porsche is trying to placate the greenies...
Here is the precise quote from the owner's manual:
"Do not let engine idle to warm up."
It then goes on to say you should keep it under 4200rpm for five minutes.
"Do not..." seems pretty clear to me. Personally, I'm with the 'as long as it takes to do up your seatbelt' gang.
"Do not let engine idle to warm up."
It then goes on to say you should keep it under 4200rpm for five minutes.
"Do not..." seems pretty clear to me. Personally, I'm with the 'as long as it takes to do up your seatbelt' gang.
Even so I like to wait until my car engine's secondary air pump shuts off before driving away. Engine is no where near up to full operating temperature but in the short time (less than a minute in most cases) the engine does have time to gain a little heat.
Sure, after this short warmup I still adhere to keeping the engine loads down and RPMs below 3500 and not too low either until car driven long enough engine (and rest of drivetrain) has had plenty of time to come up to full operating temperature before giving the engine the whip.
If engine warm enough secondary air injection pump doesn't kick on then I drive car away as soon as I'm ready. Sometimes this requires I fasten seat belt sometimes I get seat belt fastened before I start engine.
Sincerely,
Macster.
01-22-2008, 08:48 PM
#39
Race Car
Here is the precise quote from the owner's manual:
"Do not let engine idle to warm up."
It then goes on to say you should keep it under 4200rpm for five minutes.
"Do not..." seems pretty clear to me. Personally, I'm with the 'as long as it takes to do up your seatbelt' gang.
"Do not let engine idle to warm up."
It then goes on to say you should keep it under 4200rpm for five minutes.
"Do not..." seems pretty clear to me. Personally, I'm with the 'as long as it takes to do up your seatbelt' gang.
Hey Bruce? Is a precise quote like a true fact?
Sorry, I couldn't pass it up.
01-23-2008, 07:19 AM
#41
Racer
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Nice thread and lots of good reading!
My $.02: Be nice to the car and it will be nice back (Usually!?). I use the temp guage for reference:
I drive immediately after starting and use light throttle, keep the revs between 1500 and 2500 for a few blocks. Keep below 3000 until the temp needle is at the first mark, below 4000 until it hits the second mark and do not use full throttle or yellow/red line untill at 180 (nl temp).
Somehow, the motor and transmission tell me when it's OK to push the car harder.......
My $.02: Be nice to the car and it will be nice back (Usually!?). I use the temp guage for reference:
I drive immediately after starting and use light throttle, keep the revs between 1500 and 2500 for a few blocks. Keep below 3000 until the temp needle is at the first mark, below 4000 until it hits the second mark and do not use full throttle or yellow/red line untill at 180 (nl temp).
Somehow, the motor and transmission tell me when it's OK to push the car harder.......
