thanks for all the help... does anybody have any comments on the following?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2001-...em220192054255

 

I'm sure everyone does. Mine: I think the mileage is too low, and the mods would concern me.

 

My car is for sal............ ah, forget it............ I'll turn it back to the lease company and let them send it to the Manheim auction.

 

The best strategy, especially for a first time Porsche buyer, is to find a CPO car at a good Porsche dealer. Notice I said "good" Porsche dealer. There are some bad ones out there. You need to find a dealership and sales person that you think you can kind of trust. The best situation is to find a CPO car that they originally sold, one that they did all of the maintenance work on, and usually one that got traded in on a new Porsche. And you want to get a car that has been driven, not stored in the garage. I think you want a car that has at least 5000 miles a year on it.

That was the situation when I bought my car used at 40,000 miles. I knew the entire history of the car, knew it had been previously owned by a Porsche enthusiast who only traded it to get a new one. I even know that he had traded in another Porsche when he got mine. After 50,000 of mostly trouble free miles (only fly in the ointment was the transmission had to be replaced under warranty), I know I have a really good car.

You have to search though to find that combination, but it can be done. You can find good cars on used car lots, but it is really hard to get the history. And the history of how the car was maintained and even how it was driven is really important. That is one reason why being able to talk to the previous owner when buying privately is so important.

The issue of having to replace motors is real, although only a small statistical risk. It can happen though on any car, it is just that the Porsche approach is to replace the whole engine with all of the attached hardware. That drives up the price, but then afterwords you are truly way ahead. My car now has 93,000 miles on the original engine. While I don't anticipate having to replace my engine, if it happens, I figure I put out the money but my resale value has jumped up by about half the cost of the new motor. When you look at it that way the risk doesn't look quite so bad.

 

Tim has a very nice and clean car. His car is a great example and the price is hard to beat.

 

+1 on Tim's car. meets all the advice I see on this thread.

 

https://rennlist.com/forums/996-forum/402656-what-happened-to-my-porsche.html


My advice is to never own a Porsche without warranty unless you can factor in the cost of a new engine. I have another couple of years before mine runs out.
I bought a 2004 40th anniversary (with about 10 months new car warranty and an additional 2 years CPO) with less than 11,000 miles which showed no sign of ill-use. It was wonderful, like a new girlfriend, I couldn't keep away from it. That changed last week when the engine puked, while sitting at idle in neutral. The engine has been completely torn down for replacement/repair of the dreaded "intermediate shaft failure". I have been assure that the new bearing is larger and stronger. What is disturbing is that this problem was known from the first 996 engines and this marginal component was still being used four-five years later. There is nothing preventative that can be done to predict or prevent this "hand grenade" from pulling its own pin. Some just fail.
From the view of Porsche the failure rate was not significant enough to warrant recall or redesign. In the overall universe of all Porsches that may well be true. In my universe of Porshes it's 100 percent fail.
For comparison I went through ( here I become an apostate) a Corvette forum, scanning a few hundred postings. What I didn't find was anywhere near the number of total engine failures or "I'm on my (insert number here) RMS replacement.
For what I spent on a used Porsche I could have almost bought a BRAND NEW Z06 or BMW Z4 M coupe with thousands left over.
I may have many trouble-free miles in my Porsche in the future. But to continue the above girlfriend analogy; she betrayed me. No matter how good my experience in the future each long trip will have a bit of unease.
At this point I am "stuck" with the Porsche. If I were to sell it upon completion of repair, the loss I would suffer would be about the cost of a future engine failure. Most Porshe engineering is the best in the world but some is sub-par. Too bad it's not the door handle or something less lethal to the car.

 

yea on this very board and it makes sense... people praise porsche engineering and if a fault occurs, they make up excuses... not enough data, the repair cost doesn't add up to much, blah blah blah.

no matter how cool the car looks, how great it drives, if i don't believe that the car is dependable, it's a complete pos to me. i can't love a car i can't depend on because i don't have peace of mind driving it since it is a toy, a pure pleasure mobile.

for as much as i like the 911 for how it drives, i appreciate my '99 jeep cherokee's bulletproof inline6/tranny combo, the honda civics crazy reilable/low maint ownership exp etc etc.

RMS/IMS sux bottom line. it's only on a 911 where i want a remanufactured engine. i would never say the same on the S54 in the E46 M3. that sucker is bulletproof. the F20C in the S2000 is bulletproof.

not here, though. not here. so take that extra care to get a ppi done, check out the past owner(s), kick the tires.

and yea, tim's car is a rennlist car so if the color and options on it is your bag o' potato chips, i wouldn't hesitate to look at that car given its price, ownership history, and condition.

 

bronston:

i read your initial posts and that was the cause for some of my concern regarding the 996... you and some guy who's 996 took an oil sh$t in the car wash line (or was that you?)... in any event, it is a bit unsettling.

in the end, the valuable lessoned i learned from RL is CPO's from a good dealer w/ warranty is WORTH 100% the extra premium you pay. i liken it paying a bit extra to buy the company with a strong balance sheet and great cash flow vs. bargain hunting for a steal... i figure, hell if you are going to commit to a Porsche, buy the right one... i just have to overcome the thought of the extra $5-6K to be spend that would be otherwise wasted on "other goodies"... =)

 

I would not buy this car. I can see that there are more mods on it than he is listing which makes me question what else has been done and by who.

Also, a RUF exhaust is not going to get you 15-20hp, no way.

I think your best best is to buy CPO from a dealer or buy a car from a know forum member and shop for an extended warranty if you would be unwilling to pay for a new motor out of pocket.

My advise is also to stick to '02+ 996's

 

i bought my c4s from a private seller on 6speedonline. i made sure to purchase an aftermarket warranty thru my local porsche dealer for about $3500 out the door.

CPO is not necessary. in fact, a CPO car can well be owned by a clueless owner who leased it and then returned it and then the dealer quickly adds the CPO (that 100+ list checkpoint deal is worthless).

so don't thikn CPO is necessary. it's not. absolutely. u still need to do PPI and warranty coverage is available to you thru the dealer.

 

You're right. it is hard to make the jump from the reliable... i drove my old '99 4runner up to 178,000 miles. i used to say that i'd always own a lexus/toyota b/c of the practicality until this year, i already made the jump to chevy and bought a denali... so i figga's what the hell, let's go to porsche as well... the hard part is once you justify the higher cost you continue to look at the next model up.. well, if im going to spend xxx on a C2, why not pay another x to get a C2S, or pay xxx to get a 997... or i can get a lil bit older TT for xxx.... there are so many possible choices it can drive you crazy

and i agree w/ you on the other motors, but i'd say you forgot VQs, KA24s and SR20s.. i help some friends out on their project cars and those are GREAT motors... sorry (off topic)....

 

akim, have u driven a 996 carrera? this is where it kills all the VQs, S54s, and F20Cs of this world. it's just a superior driving experience.

so then u know u gotta have it... i have complete peace of mind (knock on keyboard) with my '02 c4s. i've put on about 12K miles on it since April 2006 and nothing's been out of order. i do have a remanufactured engine in the car which was replaced under factory warranty. sure it may prove to be reliable for as long as i own, but i wouldn't have gotten this car if i didn't get that aftermarket warranty.

so when you marry that peace of mind with the drive, there is no substitute. you just gotta find one u like and make sure u have something to cover your ****. what's left is the drive which has been an absolute blast.

 

That is we buy them for emotional/pleasurable reasons, not just for their transportation value. To own a Porsche you should love it and I did until last week. Unfortunatly, at this point I do not love it much, but as noted above I am stuck, a "divorce" would cost as much as a future new engine.
I agree with Benjamin Choi about the excuse making for the chronic Porsche problems. Go look at the Corvette board; they don't have to make excuses and there are many more Corvettes out there and if I can be a bit presumptous, are being driven by a less mature crowd. They don't seem to need excuses.
Maybe I'll go over to a BMW board and do a similar informal survey.

Thanks to all who didn't flame me for my apostasy.

 

i did drive a C2... and i really do enjoy the car. i'd love to try an S or higher model to see what that's like. of far i've driven everything a dealer is willing to put in front of me. i tried the old 986's a new cayman 987S (great car by the way) and a 996C2 and a 997C2... love the 997, but too expensive right now... i dont know what it is, b/c its not the horsepower, its just how the car feels. i've driven in plenty of cars with more power to the wheels, but it doesnt feel the same a pcar... and that's why im lookin... cheers..