Ray S

This has nothing to do with impressing anyone (no one else in the car to impress). It has far more to do with a driving rhythm around the track. As far as your statement

"Are you slowing the car down with each downshift approaching the corner or something (hopefully not)."

As I indicated in my original post I am rev matching the downshifts while braking at the same time. It may sound like a lot to someone who does not track their car, but in practice it happens very quickly and it helps insure that I don't screw the pooch with a mechanical over rev. As far as your assertion that this is a "novice" way around the track I have watched a lot of drivers that are faster and more experienced than me do it the very same way. Even F1 cars (with sequential automatic transmissions) hit each gear on the way down. I will occasionally skip a gear on the way down, but I prefer to touch them all.

Now the street is an entirely different story. I skip gears going up and down all the time.

Ray S

I agree with you Jim. It really does seem to help settle the rear in turn 5.

Paul 996

hmm. You are entitled to your opinion. Also, didn't mean to call you a noob. However, why not and ask this question on the Race/DE forum about sequentially downshifting through the gears approaching a corner. FYI: I am normally at the track up to 2 weekends a month and instruct, not that it matters.

FWIW: I am pretty sure that telemetry data would prove that if your are threshold braking right up to the corner and only downshift once your are likely faster than trying to do say 2 heel-toe downshifts while slowing down. Let's say the two approaches prove absolutely equal due to a fabulously coordinated driver with perfectly crisp downshifts, isn't it still wearing out the equipment when the brakes are really doing all the work? Now, I have never had any trouble getting my car's into gear so I am not familiar with a 996 gearbox heating up issue.

Tippy

You should fix that problem.

JimB

Actually Paul the topic has been debated at length on the racing/DE forum. I think it all started with a Leh Keen video where he goes through the gears when downshifting. There were different opinions but I came away first trying and then adopting a go through the gears technique. I'm not suggesting letting the clutch out at every shift except in special circumstances like T5 at Road America. Your brake bias is so forward in the 996 that just a little bit of drag in the back really helps in that corner. You have to be competent but not Alonso to get it all done in time. BTW, I used data to determine it was the fast way and FWIW I’m also a national certified instructor blah blah. I really don’t think you should knock it until you give it a fair shake. A side benefit is that it makes it almost impossible to hit the wrong gear.
Jim

Paul 996

Jim,

Jim, Sounds good. Sound a little like you your talking about a little engine trail braking to rotate the car (a little drag in the back) which is completely useful....Really curious about rowing the gears w/o releasing the clutch.. What exactly does that accomplish or benefit? (honest question here). Feel free to PM if your so inclined as I am genuinely interested in things that I don't know.

FWIW: I used to row the gears performing spectacular sounding heal/toe downshifts into corners (with and w/o the clutch even) but then I learned better in using the brakes at 100% to slow the car down quickly and while doing so engaging the appropriate gear for my end speed. Now, initiating the rotation of the car using either a trailing brake (or Left foot braking) or engine braking is another thing altogether and a good one at that.

Maybe it is just a preference thing... but I stand by the fact that you are wearing out your equipment much less doing it my way.

BTW: Jim, I think my car is quickly and accidentally becoming your clone...3.6 X51, etc

Paul Marangoni

I've put it into first gear in several corners. One of them is on Buttonwillow. I don't think I've ever been over 4th gear though (on the track).

JimB

Brainerd, Daytona and Road America all have 6th gear sections. I don't think I've ever been in first.
Jim

Paul Marangoni

Wow, those must be some fast tracks. I probably wouldn't have needed to use first gear if I had been using DOT tires, but with street tires I had to get the speed way down and then power out.

JimB

First off, congrats on the X51. I love the option. It sometimes gets a bad rap for being expensive which I suppose it true but it really changes the car.

As for running through the gears, in an enduro or even a 30 minute club race, the transmission would get hot enough that when skipping gears you would go to stick it in 2nd or 3rd and it would be like there was no gate. It just felt like mush. This only happened in high speed to low speed corners like 5th to 2nd shifts. Adding solid motor mounts helped but didn't solve the problem. A better grade of trans fluid didn't have much impact. Adjusting the cables did nothing. The only real solution to smooth shifting all the time was running through the gears. My mechanic explained it but I'm sure I'd quote him incorrectly. As I said before, I tried the method after the discussion on the racing/DE forum and was amazed how much smoother the shifting was. The side benefit was that you always know what gear you are in. Again, give it a try. It might not be for you. BTW, there are many corners where I skip gears. It all depends on what works best in a certain spot.
Jim

JimB

Paul,
They are pretty fast tracks.

Daytona has two different spots where you hit 6th. I hit a top speed there of 161. That's according to my data acq. The speedo read much higher. It's extra exciting because it's very rough banking and there's a wall a few feet to your right.

At Road America you're only in 6th for a couple of moments on the front straight. In a stock car you won't get out of 5th but it is a very fast track.

At Brainerd you hit 6th on the mile long front straight and carry the speed through T1. In my 996 I downshift to 5th for T2 but that's almost as fast. In my cup car I leave it in 6th for both. Sort of crazy actually.
Jim

Paul 996

Jim,

Interesting stuff, something to keep in mind if I ever start having weird transmission probs. I know what you mean about the motormounts.. Sometimes 3rd is hard to find mid corner accelerating out of long sweeper in 2nd due.

The x51 is coming by way of a new 3.6 being put into my 99 where a 3.4 used to breathe and live.

Cheers man

NNH

So:

Yes, driving causes RPM.
No, you don't have to drive everywhere at maximum RPM.

1999Porsche911

Remember to slow the car down before applying your brakes. You wouldn't want to cause excessive pad wear caused by high rotor rpm.

himself

I never hit 6th on the track. I'm lucky if I hit 6500 RPM in 4th -> 120+ MPH. Most of the technical tracks use 2-4. Maybe 5th. I've never been on one that required 6th, but others may have. Also, you rev match per shift, so 4-3 gets one blip, 3-2 gets another. And this only takes a fraction of a second - much shorter than the time it takes to actually slow the car at those speeds.

So going from 5-4-3-2 is pretty simple, and effective, and doesn't affect lap times negatively.

Check this video out to catch a 4-3 / 3-2 down shift at 2:05-2:08: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrEpfVV14gc
At 2:08 the car comes out of a corner in 2nd, runs up to redline, then to 3rd for a brief instant, then back to 2nd for the next turn. Sometimes I hit the rev limiter trying to push the RPMs really high after the turn in (Turn 12).


-td