New Member!!!
A couple of guys that are smarter than me
A Type 1 is an over-rev condition that thru to engines own inertia or power stroke has exceeded redline and the DME has fired the ignition during above redline and the condition has recorded the individual firings. It also records the time (Total Hours) and is revised at each event.
A Type 2 is an over-rev condition when an external force has caused the engine to speed beyond the redline threshold such as down shifting to a lower gear and engine matches the rpm of the transmission input shaft.
The difference between the two may sound subtle, but is more involved.
In a Type 1 condition, such as when one misses and up-shift. The engine is in a free-wheeling state and the internal energy is acting on the rotating and reciprocating mass. The crankshaft is unloaded for a brief moment and there is still some force on the top of the piston during most of the 4 stroke cycle.
Type 2 conditions are not healthy for the rod and rod bolts, although there must be some design reserve before yield. When one down shifts to a gear which leads to an over-rev condition, there is little energy pushing down on the head of the piston to keep the rod in a compression mode. The crankshaft is pushing violently on the rod and then jerking the piston and rod assembly back towards the crank centerline. The rods are primarily designed for a compression mode, meaning forces enacted on the top of the piston and imparting energy into the crankshaft via the connecting rod. The connecting rods and bolts really don’t like the dynamics in a stretching mode and this condition leads to material yielding. This is the condition that causes the rod bolts to fail. They yield during the stretch. The connecting rod can also yield due to stretch, but that is seen more with Aluminum Connecting Rods.
When I saw the number of type 1 and type 2 over-revs, my heart started to race. I was thinking that the engine was going to explode at any time because of the previous driver was thrashing the engine. Well when I came to my senses, I realized that the counts were ignition firings, and that at 6,700 rpm’s there are 335 firings in a given second, I felt a little better. Consider the actual time the engine is in an over-rev’ed mode. The DME caught the condition, responded with the appropriate shut down to protect the engine. This would be the dwell time of what, may a second or two. So at 2 seconds there were 670 firings. So if your count was 1435 over-rev firings, then it would have been 5 times that the engine over shot the redline. The type 2 over-revs were 91 and means that maybe someone jammed it into a lower gear just once.
A Type 2 is an over-rev condition when an external force has caused the engine to speed beyond the redline threshold such as down shifting to a lower gear and engine matches the rpm of the transmission input shaft.
The difference between the two may sound subtle, but is more involved.
In a Type 1 condition, such as when one misses and up-shift. The engine is in a free-wheeling state and the internal energy is acting on the rotating and reciprocating mass. The crankshaft is unloaded for a brief moment and there is still some force on the top of the piston during most of the 4 stroke cycle.
Type 2 conditions are not healthy for the rod and rod bolts, although there must be some design reserve before yield. When one down shifts to a gear which leads to an over-rev condition, there is little energy pushing down on the head of the piston to keep the rod in a compression mode. The crankshaft is pushing violently on the rod and then jerking the piston and rod assembly back towards the crank centerline. The rods are primarily designed for a compression mode, meaning forces enacted on the top of the piston and imparting energy into the crankshaft via the connecting rod. The connecting rods and bolts really don’t like the dynamics in a stretching mode and this condition leads to material yielding. This is the condition that causes the rod bolts to fail. They yield during the stretch. The connecting rod can also yield due to stretch, but that is seen more with Aluminum Connecting Rods.
When I saw the number of type 1 and type 2 over-revs, my heart started to race. I was thinking that the engine was going to explode at any time because of the previous driver was thrashing the engine. Well when I came to my senses, I realized that the counts were ignition firings, and that at 6,700 rpm’s there are 335 firings in a given second, I felt a little better. Consider the actual time the engine is in an over-rev’ed mode. The DME caught the condition, responded with the appropriate shut down to protect the engine. This would be the dwell time of what, may a second or two. So at 2 seconds there were 670 firings. So if your count was 1435 over-rev firings, then it would have been 5 times that the engine over shot the redline. The type 2 over-revs were 91 and means that maybe someone jammed it into a lower gear just once.
A type 1 over rev occurs when you linger on the throttle a bit too long when making an upshift. The rev limiter will prevent any damage at this point, but the event is recorded as a type 1 (actually, each "event" will show dozens or hundreds of counts).
A type 2 over rev occurs when you are shifting, say 4th to 5th, but accidently grab 3rd instead. At this point, the engine is forced by the wheels to rev higher than its design limits, and serious damage can occur... like pistons running into valves, or connecting rods being stretched. Even a single type 2 over rev is bad, and often a dealer will deny warranty coverage to an engine that has recorded a type 2 event.
A type 2 over rev occurs when you are shifting, say 4th to 5th, but accidently grab 3rd instead. At this point, the engine is forced by the wheels to rev higher than its design limits, and serious damage can occur... like pistons running into valves, or connecting rods being stretched. Even a single type 2 over rev is bad, and often a dealer will deny warranty coverage to an engine that has recorded a type 2 event.
Originally Posted by Pettit
... It's a '99 with almost 76,000 miles on it. ... some maintenance records. ... said the clutch was looked over but did not need to be replaced. ... factory aero kit ...
"... said the clutch was looked over" sounds to me like an RMS leak, why would otherwise check the clutch? However, this is a common 996 issue anyway.
With a clear record from the PPI and a warranty, you'll be fine but check the possibility of a warranty prior to the purchase if you want one.
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
From: Lompoc, California - DC Native
Originally Posted by arr0gant
Nice car, I think a GT3 badge would really finish it off nicely!! 
thanks to everyone who replied, i think i'm going to go ahead and schedule the ppi and if it comes out good try to get the car
Originally Posted by pat056
Can I get an AM warranty after I've purchased the car? If so, where would I look?
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
From: Lompoc, California - DC Native
Originally Posted by arr0gant
Seriously tho, negotiatte the hell out of it. I think you can get it for $26 - $27k.
Originally Posted by Pettit
i really want to but he seems real firm and I don't want to **** him off. i still might ask him again today. we'll see
LOL, seems firm. Ya, don't push him , or **** him off. Keep him happy, give a lot of your money.
A little story for ya, kid. When I bought my Twin Turbo about 2 months ago, they seemed firm. After 3 days of negotiating I got my price. If I had taken your approach, I would have handed them an extra $8500.
Originally Posted by arr0gant
LOL, seems firm. Ya, don't push him , or **** him off. Keep him happy, give a lot of your money.
A little story for ya, kid. When I bought my Twin Turbo about 2 months ago, they seemed firm. After 3 days of negotiating I got my price. If I had taken your approach, I would have handed them an extra $8500.
A little story for ya, kid. When I bought my Twin Turbo about 2 months ago, they seemed firm. After 3 days of negotiating I got my price. If I had taken your approach, I would have handed them an extra $8500.
Originally Posted by arr0gant
Seriously tho, negotiatte the hell out of it. I think you can get it for $26 - $27k.
It seems you like this car. I would do the PPI first then negotiate the price. There could be some minor issues that can be adjusted with price after the PPI is done. He will see that you are a real buyer and not just taking up this time. I'd bet he will move on price knowing he can move the car that day.
Also if you negotiate price before PPI it's a hell of a lot harder to renegotiate after you find minor problems.
Find out what you have then negotiate
Good luck
Also if you negotiate price before PPI it's a hell of a lot harder to renegotiate after you find minor problems.
Find out what you have then negotiate
Good luck
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
From: Lompoc, California - DC Native
Originally Posted by arr0gant
LOL, seems firm. Ya, don't push him , or **** him off. Keep him happy, give a lot of your money.
A little story for ya, kid. When I bought my Twin Turbo about 2 months ago, they seemed firm. After 3 days of negotiating I got my price. If I had taken your approach, I would have handed them an extra $8500.
A little story for ya, kid. When I bought my Twin Turbo about 2 months ago, they seemed firm. After 3 days of negotiating I got my price. If I had taken your approach, I would have handed them an extra $8500.
Originally Posted by evansaero
It seems you like this car. I would do the PPI first then negotiate the price. There could be some minor issues that can be adjusted with price after the PPI is done. He will see that you are a real buyer and not just taking up this time. I'd bet he will move on price knowing he can move the car that day.
Also if you negotiate price before PPI it's a hell of a lot harder to renegotiate after you find minor problems.
Find out what you have then negotiate
Good luck
Also if you negotiate price before PPI it's a hell of a lot harder to renegotiate after you find minor problems.
Find out what you have then negotiate
Good luck

