Rolled through a stop sign...
04-24-2007, 06:50 PM
#16
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Originally Posted by Chuck Jones
I'm sorry guys, but I'm always amazed when I read these posts from folks who openly admit they were speeding, ran a stopsign, had an open container, had been drinking, or violated some section of the vehicle code....and come here asking the collective audience for how to beat the rap.
I realize that I'm probably going to get a bunch of hate mail...but the fact remains that you are issued a license as a priviledge to drive...and are expected to obey the various laws that go along with being a responsible driver. When you speed, blow a stop, get ****-faced... or violate whatever section of the vehicle code....it pains me to see everyone jump in and offer suggestions on how to beat the law. If you play, you pay; simple as that. That is not to say that you can't use the constitutional rights afforded to you. To me, your best legitimate opportunity for beating the rap exists when the cop walks up to your car. At that point, he/she has a certain degree of discretion to issue the citation or not, and your demeanor and interaction with him/her is your best shot. That's your chance. After that, unless you have truly been singled out for an unfair reason, or you were subjected to a technological hiccup (equipment not calibrated right or improperly used) you have only one course of action; and that is to show up in court and hope that the Traffic God smiles upon you and the officer doesn't show up.....The rest of this is really just a collection of anecdotal examples of how to beat the system....a system you knowingly violated. Over time I have read all sorts of comments about the F*****G cops, what A$$holes they are etc. Yes, there are cops who are all of that...just as there are drivers who are overly aggressive, impolite, inconsiderate, profane, flat-out dangerous on the road....or, to use the vernacular of the day...drivers who are similarly A$$holes and *********. I know that there will be a litany of "yeah but how about when....." or "I was stopped for nothing but a ...." or "You should have seen what this ******** cop did..." I'm not talking about the instances of abuse of authority, or deliberate singling out of a driver for reasons other than a legitimate violation, or a violation of a driver's constitutional rights.
The Constitution gives you certain rights that you can exercise...due process, right to remain silent, right to post bail, and right to an attorney, right to a speedy trial, right to be taken to a magistrate, and probably more that I can't think of. So...if you end up getting nailed, then those are your rights....and I guess if you want to go into court and fabricate a story or impune your integrity...that's your option...but it's not a constitutional right. You never lose your integrity, you deliberately throw it away. The defenses and constitutional guarantees are set up to protect the innocent...not accomodate the guilty. Most of what I've been reading on how to beat a rap is designed to accomodate the guilty. I think the easiest way to stay out of court, is not put yourself in a postion of having to defend yourself in the first place. Back to the age old adage....If you play, you pay.
I sat here for quite a while wondering if I had the ***** to push the transmit key...almost deleted this post several times...but what the hell. I figure if some of you folks can give your opinions on how to beat a rap, I guess I have just as much "right" to give my take on all this.
I realize that I'm probably going to get a bunch of hate mail...but the fact remains that you are issued a license as a priviledge to drive...and are expected to obey the various laws that go along with being a responsible driver. When you speed, blow a stop, get ****-faced... or violate whatever section of the vehicle code....it pains me to see everyone jump in and offer suggestions on how to beat the law. If you play, you pay; simple as that. That is not to say that you can't use the constitutional rights afforded to you. To me, your best legitimate opportunity for beating the rap exists when the cop walks up to your car. At that point, he/she has a certain degree of discretion to issue the citation or not, and your demeanor and interaction with him/her is your best shot. That's your chance. After that, unless you have truly been singled out for an unfair reason, or you were subjected to a technological hiccup (equipment not calibrated right or improperly used) you have only one course of action; and that is to show up in court and hope that the Traffic God smiles upon you and the officer doesn't show up.....The rest of this is really just a collection of anecdotal examples of how to beat the system....a system you knowingly violated. Over time I have read all sorts of comments about the F*****G cops, what A$$holes they are etc. Yes, there are cops who are all of that...just as there are drivers who are overly aggressive, impolite, inconsiderate, profane, flat-out dangerous on the road....or, to use the vernacular of the day...drivers who are similarly A$$holes and *********. I know that there will be a litany of "yeah but how about when....." or "I was stopped for nothing but a ...." or "You should have seen what this ******** cop did..." I'm not talking about the instances of abuse of authority, or deliberate singling out of a driver for reasons other than a legitimate violation, or a violation of a driver's constitutional rights.
The Constitution gives you certain rights that you can exercise...due process, right to remain silent, right to post bail, and right to an attorney, right to a speedy trial, right to be taken to a magistrate, and probably more that I can't think of. So...if you end up getting nailed, then those are your rights....and I guess if you want to go into court and fabricate a story or impune your integrity...that's your option...but it's not a constitutional right. You never lose your integrity, you deliberately throw it away. The defenses and constitutional guarantees are set up to protect the innocent...not accomodate the guilty. Most of what I've been reading on how to beat a rap is designed to accomodate the guilty. I think the easiest way to stay out of court, is not put yourself in a postion of having to defend yourself in the first place. Back to the age old adage....If you play, you pay.
I sat here for quite a while wondering if I had the ***** to push the transmit key...almost deleted this post several times...but what the hell. I figure if some of you folks can give your opinions on how to beat a rap, I guess I have just as much "right" to give my take on all this.
The judicial system is flawed as well. You can spout all the patriotic, constitutional rhetoric you want, but everyone in the system is trying to take advantage of it. If you have the resources, then you might as well fight. Is it fair that if you're innocent on a traffic violation that you automatically lose if the cop shows up?
Anyway, for $75, I'd just go to traffic school, get the violation off of my record and move on. A day wasted in court is worth more than $75 to me. But if you can't go to traffic school, then I'd go to court and try to get it off my record.
Good luck!
04-24-2007, 06:59 PM
#17
Race Car
Originally Posted by Chuck Jones
I'm sorry guys, but I'm always amazed when I read these posts from folks who openly admit they were speeding, ran a stopsign, had an open container, had been drinking, or violated some section of the vehicle code....and come here asking the collective audience for how to beat the rap.
I realize that I'm probably going to get a bunch of hate mail...but the fact remains that you are issued a license as a priviledge to drive...and are expected to obey the various laws that go along with being a responsible driver. When you speed, blow a stop, get ****-faced... or violate whatever section of the vehicle code....it pains me to see everyone jump in and offer suggestions on how to beat the law. If you play, you pay; simple as that. That is not to say that you can't use the constitutional rights afforded to you. To me, your best legitimate opportunity for beating the rap exists when the cop walks up to your car. At that point, he/she has a certain degree of discretion to issue the citation or not, and your demeanor and interaction with him/her is your best shot. That's your chance. After that, unless you have truly been singled out for an unfair reason, or you were subjected to a technological hiccup (equipment not calibrated right or improperly used) you have only one course of action; and that is to show up in court and hope that the Traffic God smiles upon you and the officer doesn't show up.....The rest of this is really just a collection of anecdotal examples of how to beat the system....a system you knowingly violated. Over time I have read all sorts of comments about the F*****G cops, what A$$holes they are etc. Yes, there are cops who are all of that...just as there are drivers who are overly aggressive, impolite, inconsiderate, profane, flat-out dangerous on the road....or, to use the vernacular of the day...drivers who are similarly A$$holes and *********. I know that there will be a litany of "yeah but how about when....." or "I was stopped for nothing but a ...." or "You should have seen what this ******** cop did..." I'm not talking about the instances of abuse of authority, or deliberate singling out of a driver for reasons other than a legitimate violation, or a violation of a driver's constitutional rights.
The Constitution gives you certain rights that you can exercise...due process, right to remain silent, right to post bail, and right to an attorney, right to a speedy trial, right to be taken to a magistrate, and probably more that I can't think of. So...if you end up getting nailed, then those are your rights....and I guess if you want to go into court and fabricate a story or impune your integrity...that's your option...but it's not a constitutional right. You never lose your integrity, you deliberately throw it away. The defenses and constitutional guarantees are set up to protect the innocent...not accomodate the guilty. Most of what I've been reading on how to beat a rap is designed to accomodate the guilty. I think the easiest way to stay out of court, is not put yourself in a postion of having to defend yourself in the first place. Back to the age old adage....If you play, you pay.
I sat here for quite a while wondering if I had the ***** to push the transmit key...almost deleted this post several times...but what the hell. I figure if some of you folks can give your opinions on how to beat a rap, I guess I have just as much "right" to give my take on all this.
I realize that I'm probably going to get a bunch of hate mail...but the fact remains that you are issued a license as a priviledge to drive...and are expected to obey the various laws that go along with being a responsible driver. When you speed, blow a stop, get ****-faced... or violate whatever section of the vehicle code....it pains me to see everyone jump in and offer suggestions on how to beat the law. If you play, you pay; simple as that. That is not to say that you can't use the constitutional rights afforded to you. To me, your best legitimate opportunity for beating the rap exists when the cop walks up to your car. At that point, he/she has a certain degree of discretion to issue the citation or not, and your demeanor and interaction with him/her is your best shot. That's your chance. After that, unless you have truly been singled out for an unfair reason, or you were subjected to a technological hiccup (equipment not calibrated right or improperly used) you have only one course of action; and that is to show up in court and hope that the Traffic God smiles upon you and the officer doesn't show up.....The rest of this is really just a collection of anecdotal examples of how to beat the system....a system you knowingly violated. Over time I have read all sorts of comments about the F*****G cops, what A$$holes they are etc. Yes, there are cops who are all of that...just as there are drivers who are overly aggressive, impolite, inconsiderate, profane, flat-out dangerous on the road....or, to use the vernacular of the day...drivers who are similarly A$$holes and *********. I know that there will be a litany of "yeah but how about when....." or "I was stopped for nothing but a ...." or "You should have seen what this ******** cop did..." I'm not talking about the instances of abuse of authority, or deliberate singling out of a driver for reasons other than a legitimate violation, or a violation of a driver's constitutional rights.
The Constitution gives you certain rights that you can exercise...due process, right to remain silent, right to post bail, and right to an attorney, right to a speedy trial, right to be taken to a magistrate, and probably more that I can't think of. So...if you end up getting nailed, then those are your rights....and I guess if you want to go into court and fabricate a story or impune your integrity...that's your option...but it's not a constitutional right. You never lose your integrity, you deliberately throw it away. The defenses and constitutional guarantees are set up to protect the innocent...not accomodate the guilty. Most of what I've been reading on how to beat a rap is designed to accomodate the guilty. I think the easiest way to stay out of court, is not put yourself in a postion of having to defend yourself in the first place. Back to the age old adage....If you play, you pay.
I sat here for quite a while wondering if I had the ***** to push the transmit key...almost deleted this post several times...but what the hell. I figure if some of you folks can give your opinions on how to beat a rap, I guess I have just as much "right" to give my take on all this.
04-24-2007, 07:03 PM
#18
Going to court to try to keep your insurance rates down is not "beating the law". It is your right to work within the law and gives you a chance to potentially use their rules and policies to your advantage. The original post did not disparage police officers or the court system and did not condone lying about what happened. If the cop shows up, you will pay your fine AND court costs, so there's no guilt for giving it a try. Until they are able to reduce bogus claims and lower insurance rates, I see nothing wrong with doing what it takes to keep your out of pocket ownership costs as low as is legally possible. Use the extra $$ for mods, tires, gas, beer, whatever...
GO TO COURT OR DO AN ONLINE DRIVER'S ED PROGRAM IF IT IS AVAILABLE WHERE YOU LIVE (as long as it keeps the ticket off of your insurance)
GO TO COURT OR DO AN ONLINE DRIVER'S ED PROGRAM IF IT IS AVAILABLE WHERE YOU LIVE (as long as it keeps the ticket off of your insurance)
04-24-2007, 07:11 PM
#19
Poseur
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Ever considered just going to court and telling all the facts,--you rolled through because of a temporary technical shortcoming in your car? As I recall the process, they will ask whether you plead guilty or not based upon "did you do what the officer says you did?" If the anser is , "yes, but..." they consider that guilty. Perhaps try a plea bargain thing where you go, guilty, but with circumstances...
04-24-2007, 08:08 PM
#21
Originally Posted by Edgy01
Ever considered just going to court and telling all the facts,--you rolled through because of a temporary technical shortcoming in your car? As I recall the process, they will ask whether you plead guilty or not based upon "did you do what the officer says you did?" If the anser is , "yes, but..." they consider that guilty. Perhaps try a plea bargain thing where you go, guilty, but with circumstances...
04-24-2007, 09:15 PM
#22
Drifting
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"i say show up in a dress and wig and tell them that they got the wrong person......."
Best damn idea in the bunch....actually mistaken identity is a viable defense. By Jove, I think this would work......Great idea Smile.
Best damn idea in the bunch....actually mistaken identity is a viable defense. By Jove, I think this would work......Great idea Smile.
04-24-2007, 09:40 PM
#25
Burning Brakes
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Driving through a stop sign without stopping ( oh, wait....I mean "rolling" through a stop sign), driving with a buzz after a party, talking on a cellphone, eating, reading, applying make-up while driving......I'm angry at people who put my life (and/or my car!) in danger. And maybe Chuck Jones and CosmosC4S are, too.
I'm not going to address how to handle these situations vis-a-vis the court system. Of course, the guilty driver wants the lightest punishment (I've been in traffic court....I'm familiar with it).
It's probably a better idea to remember that violations can hurt or kill other people. We can argue about which violations are more or less of a danger to others or ourselves, but there are many driving behaviors which are clearly reckless or careless that endanger other drivers. Is going through a stop sign without stopping one of those violations? You decide...many accidents occur when traffic signals (including stop signs) are ignored at intersections.
There was a similar thread here a couple of months ago that stimulated a lot of discussion. The topic was DUI. If you read it; I think you'll find it interesting. Here's the link:
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...+alcohol+level
I hope that what we take away from this thread is a good, healthy discussion that makes us think about, or re-think, our notions regarding the subject. In the spirit of that goodwill, be careful...and be safe. If you want to do things like speeding, do it responsibly. That's what I try to do.
I'm not going to address how to handle these situations vis-a-vis the court system. Of course, the guilty driver wants the lightest punishment (I've been in traffic court....I'm familiar with it).
It's probably a better idea to remember that violations can hurt or kill other people. We can argue about which violations are more or less of a danger to others or ourselves, but there are many driving behaviors which are clearly reckless or careless that endanger other drivers. Is going through a stop sign without stopping one of those violations? You decide...many accidents occur when traffic signals (including stop signs) are ignored at intersections.
There was a similar thread here a couple of months ago that stimulated a lot of discussion. The topic was DUI. If you read it; I think you'll find it interesting. Here's the link:
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...+alcohol+level
I hope that what we take away from this thread is a good, healthy discussion that makes us think about, or re-think, our notions regarding the subject. In the spirit of that goodwill, be careful...and be safe. If you want to do things like speeding, do it responsibly. That's what I try to do.
04-25-2007, 03:53 AM
#26
Three Wheelin'
Chuck, Thanks....I'm sure you aren't surprised....I agree 100%.
flash80, when I was working at Lennox Station in South Central Los Angeles, I had lots of better things to do then bust people's ***** for no reason. There was never a lack of crime to fight. 99% of the time when I stop someone for a traffic violation, I give them a warning.
Pretty much the only violation that I will write a ticket for is failure to stop for a stop sign or light (even then I will almost always give them a warning rather then a ticket unless they argue with me and tell me that I'm full of sh#t or I'm just harassing them because of whatever ethnicity they are). I will never forget trying to comfort a young lady who was attending El Camino Junior College as she was breathing her last breath. The man that hit her and launched her body over the top of his vehicle like a rag doll missed stopping for the stop sign by about 10 feet. Over the last 22 years, there have been several others, mostly children.
When my wife got a speeding ticket a few months ago, she plead guilty. She had a problem going into court and pleading "not guilty" when she knew that she had been speeding. I was proud of her for being honest. She paid the fine and got traffic school...no points on her license.
Sorry to rant. I had to jump on Chuck's bandwagon after I saw the comment about cops busting people's ***** for no reason. For what it's worth, one of the ways that we catch those murderers is by stopping cars for vehicle code violations.
flash80, when I was working at Lennox Station in South Central Los Angeles, I had lots of better things to do then bust people's ***** for no reason. There was never a lack of crime to fight. 99% of the time when I stop someone for a traffic violation, I give them a warning.
Pretty much the only violation that I will write a ticket for is failure to stop for a stop sign or light (even then I will almost always give them a warning rather then a ticket unless they argue with me and tell me that I'm full of sh#t or I'm just harassing them because of whatever ethnicity they are). I will never forget trying to comfort a young lady who was attending El Camino Junior College as she was breathing her last breath. The man that hit her and launched her body over the top of his vehicle like a rag doll missed stopping for the stop sign by about 10 feet. Over the last 22 years, there have been several others, mostly children.
When my wife got a speeding ticket a few months ago, she plead guilty. She had a problem going into court and pleading "not guilty" when she knew that she had been speeding. I was proud of her for being honest. She paid the fine and got traffic school...no points on her license.
Sorry to rant. I had to jump on Chuck's bandwagon after I saw the comment about cops busting people's ***** for no reason. For what it's worth, one of the ways that we catch those murderers is by stopping cars for vehicle code violations.
04-25-2007, 09:13 AM
#28
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Originally Posted by VGM911
Driving through a stop sign without stopping ( oh, wait....I mean "rolling" through a stop sign), driving with a buzz after a party, talking on a cellphone, eating, reading, applying make-up while driving......I'm angry at people who put my life (and/or my car!) in danger. And maybe Chuck Jones and CosmosC4S are, too.
Snip
Snip
04-25-2007, 09:28 AM
#29
Originally Posted by Chuck Jones
I'm sorry guys, but I'm always amazed when I read these posts from folks who openly admit they were speeding, ran a stopsign, had an open container, had been drinking, or violated some section of the vehicle code....and come here asking the collective audience for how to beat the rap.
I realize that I'm probably going to get a bunch of hate mail...but the fact remains that you are issued a license as a priviledge to drive...and are expected to obey the various laws that go along with being a responsible driver. When you speed, blow a stop, get ****-faced... or violate whatever section of the vehicle code....it pains me to see everyone jump in and offer suggestions on how to beat the law. If you play, you pay; simple as that. That is not to say that you can't use the constitutional rights afforded to you. To me, your best legitimate opportunity for beating the rap exists when the cop walks up to your car. At that point, he/she has a certain degree of discretion to issue the citation or not, and your demeanor and interaction with him/her is your best shot. That's your chance. After that, unless you have truly been singled out for an unfair reason, or you were subjected to a technological hiccup (equipment not calibrated right or improperly used) you have only one course of action; and that is to show up in court and hope that the Traffic God smiles upon you and the officer doesn't show up.....The rest of this is really just a collection of anecdotal examples of how to beat the system....a system you knowingly violated. Over time I have read all sorts of comments about the F*****G cops, what A$$holes they are etc. Yes, there are cops who are all of that...just as there are drivers who are overly aggressive, impolite, inconsiderate, profane, flat-out dangerous on the road....or, to use the vernacular of the day...drivers who are similarly A$$holes and *********. I know that there will be a litany of "yeah but how about when....." or "I was stopped for nothing but a ...." or "You should have seen what this ******** cop did..." I'm not talking about the instances of abuse of authority, or deliberate singling out of a driver for reasons other than a legitimate violation, or a violation of a driver's constitutional rights.
The Constitution gives you certain rights that you can exercise...due process, right to remain silent, right to post bail, and right to an attorney, right to a speedy trial, right to be taken to a magistrate, and probably more that I can't think of. So...if you end up getting nailed, then those are your rights....and I guess if you want to go into court and fabricate a story or impune your integrity...that's your option...but it's not a constitutional right. You never lose your integrity, you deliberately throw it away. The defenses and constitutional guarantees are set up to protect the innocent...not accomodate the guilty. Most of what I've been reading on how to beat a rap is designed to accomodate the guilty. I think the easiest way to stay out of court, is not put yourself in a postion of having to defend yourself in the first place. Back to the age old adage....If you play, you pay.
I sat here for quite a while wondering if I had the ***** to push the transmit key...almost deleted this post several times...but what the hell. I figure if some of you folks can give your opinions on how to beat a rap, I guess I have just as much "right" to give my take on all this.
I realize that I'm probably going to get a bunch of hate mail...but the fact remains that you are issued a license as a priviledge to drive...and are expected to obey the various laws that go along with being a responsible driver. When you speed, blow a stop, get ****-faced... or violate whatever section of the vehicle code....it pains me to see everyone jump in and offer suggestions on how to beat the law. If you play, you pay; simple as that. That is not to say that you can't use the constitutional rights afforded to you. To me, your best legitimate opportunity for beating the rap exists when the cop walks up to your car. At that point, he/she has a certain degree of discretion to issue the citation or not, and your demeanor and interaction with him/her is your best shot. That's your chance. After that, unless you have truly been singled out for an unfair reason, or you were subjected to a technological hiccup (equipment not calibrated right or improperly used) you have only one course of action; and that is to show up in court and hope that the Traffic God smiles upon you and the officer doesn't show up.....The rest of this is really just a collection of anecdotal examples of how to beat the system....a system you knowingly violated. Over time I have read all sorts of comments about the F*****G cops, what A$$holes they are etc. Yes, there are cops who are all of that...just as there are drivers who are overly aggressive, impolite, inconsiderate, profane, flat-out dangerous on the road....or, to use the vernacular of the day...drivers who are similarly A$$holes and *********. I know that there will be a litany of "yeah but how about when....." or "I was stopped for nothing but a ...." or "You should have seen what this ******** cop did..." I'm not talking about the instances of abuse of authority, or deliberate singling out of a driver for reasons other than a legitimate violation, or a violation of a driver's constitutional rights.
The Constitution gives you certain rights that you can exercise...due process, right to remain silent, right to post bail, and right to an attorney, right to a speedy trial, right to be taken to a magistrate, and probably more that I can't think of. So...if you end up getting nailed, then those are your rights....and I guess if you want to go into court and fabricate a story or impune your integrity...that's your option...but it's not a constitutional right. You never lose your integrity, you deliberately throw it away. The defenses and constitutional guarantees are set up to protect the innocent...not accomodate the guilty. Most of what I've been reading on how to beat a rap is designed to accomodate the guilty. I think the easiest way to stay out of court, is not put yourself in a postion of having to defend yourself in the first place. Back to the age old adage....If you play, you pay.
I sat here for quite a while wondering if I had the ***** to push the transmit key...almost deleted this post several times...but what the hell. I figure if some of you folks can give your opinions on how to beat a rap, I guess I have just as much "right" to give my take on all this.
In other words, the punishment doesn't end up fitting the crime. In law, there is a mechanism for making sure that doesn't happen. There is no such mechanism in the world of car insurance.
04-25-2007, 12:24 PM
#30
Originally Posted by BruceP
Sorry, but at least where I live, the moral view doesn't completely cover traffic tickets. I will man up and take my punishment for any crime or misdemeanor I might commit. I'm a firm believer in taking responsibility for myself. The problem with a traffic ticket is that it doesn't end there. My insurance company would use the incident as an excuse to soak me for the next five years. I wouldn't fight a ticket just to get away with it. But I would fight a ticket to prevent a corporation from relieving me of an additional several thousand dollars in arbitrary 'fines'.
In other words, the punishment doesn't end up fitting the crime. In law, there is a mechanism for making sure that doesn't happen. There is no such mechanism in the world of car insurance.
In other words, the punishment doesn't end up fitting the crime. In law, there is a mechanism for making sure that doesn't happen. There is no such mechanism in the world of car insurance.
I hope this thread dies a peaceful death. I think that some past threads have included some inappropriate remarks about police officers, but it's apparent that 99 percent of the members here are happy to come to their defense (as we should). I respect everyone's views in here, but I chuckle when anyone who went out and bought a Porsche flames a guy for a traffic infraction. I'm sure that these critics have never exceeded the speed limit, or never enjoyed the rush you get accelerating hard through second gear until you reach the legally posted speed on a road (which is probably more likely to cause an accident by hitting someone backing out of a driveway). I say, "have fun, drive safely, watch out for kids, bikes, pedestrians, other cars, etc...and let's go back to debating the plenum to see if we can all add 25 HP to our cars!"