Originally Posted by Gretch

The only thing I did not like about the 996 was the headlights....... cheesy......

I did what I could about them.....

Originally Posted by MrBonus

Isn't the 997 only 26 pounds heavier than the outgoing 996?

Originally Posted by mrsullivan

a Porsche is a Porsche...there is no substitute - period.

Originally Posted by mrsullivan

But lets continue to respect each generation for what they are... a Porsche is a Porsche...there is no substitute - period.

Originally Posted by mrsullivan

Really, this thread and similar ones in the past.... apples to oranges.
993s were hand made, dry sump GT1-derived engines, air-cooled, the last of an era in Porsche history. Do they look dated now? Absolutely. Is my my Honda minivan almost as fast? Yes it is. So the 993 is a different car for a different purpose. A pure sports car, fun to drive, smells unique inside the cabin, engine/exhaust sounds are addictive, absolutely beautiful to look at. It is special IMHO. For my particular year, there were last than 1000. I dont have current 996 and 997 production figures, but I would venture to say that they produce that many in a month. Does this make the 993 a better car? Nope. But you cannot argue that it is in demand... Many widebody 993s are selling for what a 2003 widebody 996 will sell for. It is because there are many more 996s available... a supply issue. Great if you are a buyer, maybe not so great if you are a seller.

I often think about upgrading to a 996 for the performance and modern factors. The 996tt is becoming especially tempting. I personally would probably rather have a 996tt over a 997S, because I think that the 996tt looks better and has a very proven engine platform. But lets continue to respect each generation for what they are... a Porsche is a Porsche...there is no substitute - period.

Originally Posted by Ray S

Nice try rewriting history. However, when the 996 came out is was very well received by the automotive press. If you go back and re-read the intro articles from publications such as Sports Car International, Motor Sport, Car & Driver, Road & Track, Evo, and others they are almost universal in their praise for the new 996.

Only two consistent 996 styling critiques have really emerged through the years. Front end styling that was too close to the Boxster and the loss of some of the curve in the hips.

As far as the public is concerned they voted with their $'s and made the 996 the most sucessful 911 ever by a long shot. Don't forget that when Porsche introduced the 993 they actually discounted the price vs. the 964 to pump the sales.

As far as the "raw and visceral" feel that you describe goes, what did you expect. Was Porsche really not expected to improve the car? You can take this complaint back through history with every single introduction Porsche has made since the 356. Did you ever read what the purists said about the original 911 after the 356? If you want "raw and visceral" take a ride in an old car from any manufacturer (Porsche, Ferrari, BMW, Mercedes-Benz, GM, Honda, etc) and then jump in the same model a generation down the road. Guess what, they all feel less raw!

I've driven many 911's, 964's, and 993's and I liked tham all. In fact, I'd love to get another old 911 in my garage at some point. That being said, the 996 really took 911 performance and refinement to a new high (at least until the 997 came out).

Originally Posted by designman

997 was well-received by the press too except for the "R" word that gets mentioned briefly but gets swept under the rug because it's not fashionable to criticize Porsche in the press. I ignored it until I drove some 997s, expecting to buy one and was turned off. I'm sick of the press and unrequited Porsche worship. They don't call the Z4M refined. They call it raw. That's what sports cars are unless you prefer them on auto pilot. That's where all of this is going, toward luxury and magic sports buttons that allow you to toggle between moods, with suspensions that pamper these new Conestoga bling wheels. IMO that's not improvement, it's fashion and planned obsolescence. The only carrot is the incremental power increases through the years.

Originally Posted by MrBonus

Isn't the 997 only 26 pounds heavier than the outgoing 996?

Originally Posted by AndyK

This is why I am buying a 996. Of course, I can't afford a 997, but still...!

I think if you want raw, you have to buy a new Mustang GT. Every Euro car maker has given in to the mega-electronics trend, like it or not.

Originally Posted by Chris996

You just can't top the 996 turbo look......

Originally Posted by AndyK

I think I like those! What is involved in installing them? Are they just plastic, metal, fiberglass? How do they "stick" on there? Do they come painted, or no?

Ray - Great response! Very informative. I guess reading the complaints of 50 forum posters tends to skew the perception vs. the real world of thousands of satisfied P-car buyers!