jacksonking

Sorry but I'm in the middle of this polishing process for the first time...

I have done the following:

Wash with Dawn
Clay
Some heavy cutting with compound for water spots and PO micro-scratches
Polish 4-5 times with Meguiars #9 Swirl Remover 2.0
Polish 1 time with Meguiars #7 Show Car Glaze

Here's my question: I was about to move forward to seal and wax with Zaino line and some Carnuba. I see a milky haze over most of the car. I think it was created with the #9 swirl remover. Will this disappear as I keep adding layers, or should the paint look perfect at this point?

Do I move forward to sealing?
Do I go with more rounds of Show Car Glaze to remove?
Do I need an "finer" product before sealing?
Do I need to start over?

Help is appreciated as always...as I am a first-time detailer.

Jack

Ubermensch

My suggestion is go do a polish with a finer cutting compound than the swirl remover. If you're sticking with meguires I'd use their crystal polish:

http://www.meguiars.com/estore/product_list.cfm?sectionname=Consumer%20(Meguiar's%20Brand)>Auto%20Paint %20Care>Car%20Polishes&sectionID=11401

That should remove and marks from the swirl remover. Then glaze, then wax. It should look perfect prior to wax.

Shawn

okbarnett

if you are doing that black car; I would re-do from scratch. Use some Clean Cut ( brand ) chemical polishing compound for clear coats with an orbital polisher. Available at Auto Body Express , Finishmasters or any other paint store. And then Meguires 26 carnuba, with the orbital.

rroobbcc

There are really three main steps to "waxing" a car...

- clean the paint
- smooth the paint
- protect the paint

CLEAN THE PAINT - this is generally done with a degreasing wash solution. Dawn dishwashing liquid seems to work really well. I recommend...

- wash once
- empty and clean bucket
- wash again with a clean spounge/cloth
- clay
- empty and clean bucket
- wash yet again with a clean spounge/cloth.

NOTE: At this point you can NOT stop until you have at least one coat of protectant (i.e. wax/polish/etc) on the car because you have cleaned ALL old protectant off and the paint is very vulnerable.

SMOOTH THE PAINT - This is the most critical step to achieving a high gloss finish. At a microscopic level the paint is really rough with lots of peaks and valleys. The key to high gloss is smoothing out the peaks and valleys. There are a lot of options here, but they all basically follow one of two philosophies... 1. lower the peaks, 2. fill in the valleys. It is often a combination of both that achieves the best results.

1. lower the peaks - products in this catagory are rubbing/polishing compounds of varying degrees of coarseness. These compounds are basically "sanding" away a small amount of paint. There are also some chemical polishing compounds that essentially "dissolve" away a small layer of paint, as well as some types of clay that can be used. Exactly how much polishing is required will depend on the depth of the swirls and scratches that you want to remove.

WARNING: you are removing paint. Eventually you will hit metal (well actually primer first). You should never polish more than is absolutely necessary, and should be very careful using a buffer as it will cut through the paint very quickly on any shaped edges, folds, or creases (think about the channel in the middle of the hood on air-cooled 911s).

2. raise the valleys - these products are hand glazes, and some swirl removers. They contain compounds that are small enough to flow down into the valleys in the paint and filling them to some degree. This works well for very fine swirls and scratches, but not for deeper blemishes. Also keep in mind that these products generally do NOT seal/protect the paint (although there are some), so you still must followup with a protective coat.

You will probably find that a combination of these two products works best. I have had very good results reviving old fading paint using a coarse 3M Heavy- or Medium-Cut rubbing compound, followed by a 3M fine-cut compound, and then 3M Imperial Hand Glaze.

NOTE: At this point, if you got it right, you should have a high gloss wet-look finish. You now simply need to protect the finish.

PROTECT THE PAINT - If you properly smoothed the paint I have found that most waxes/polishes will work well to seal and protect the paint. It is simply a matter of choosing one that you are comfortable working with and has the longevity you need. If the paint is properly smoothed there are not many waxes/polishes that will noticably increase the quality of the finish except for a pure carnuba wax. The downside is that carnuba has very poor longevity. If you have a trailer transported concours queen, then by all means go for carnuba. However, most of us will want a polish. Polishes are synthetic "wax-like" compounds that are engineered to be more durable, but generally aren't as optically perfect as pure carnuba.

WARNING: Some polishes are in fact combo- smoothing/protecting products. They both contain a chemical polish (i.e. "lower the peaks") compound (usually something petroleum based), and a synthetic wax/protectant. These are often referred to as "Cleaner Polish" or "Cleaner Wax". While they may seem more convienent, I find the are a compromise in many points. However, they should always be AVOIDED as a finally paint protectant if you have used a hand glaze to help smooth the paint. The chemical cleaner will indescriminately attack the hand glaze and you will most like end up with a worse finish than you had after the smoothing process.

The last time I did a full detail of my car I tried Zaino, and did the full Zaino treatment per the instructions. Generally I was very happy with the results, but I believe I could have removed even more swirl marks with 3M Imperial Hand Glaze. I like the Zaino Z-2 as a final polish/protectant, but Zaino claims there system is designed work as a whole, so I don't know how well it will work if applied over hand glaze. I intend to find out the next time I detail the car. In fact the next time I do a full detail I plan to follow these steps...

CLEAN THE PAINT:
- wash once
- empty and clean bucket
- wash again with a clean spounge/cloth
- clay
- empty and clean bucket
- wash yet again with a clean spounge/cloth.

SMOOTH THE PAINT:
- 3M fine-cut compound on a few scratches that need work
- 3M Imperial Hand Glaze, applied by hand

PROTECT THE PAINT:
- 3 or 4 layers of Zaino Z-2

One final note. DO NOT USE DAWN FOR ROUTINE CAR WASHING!!! Remember why we used Dawn in the first place. To cut through and remove all of the old wax and polish. For routine maintenance of your car's finish us a car wash liquid that is designed not to attack the protectant. I have been using Zaino Z-7 Show Car Wash for the last year, and have been happy with it.

Picture below is post-full Zaino treatment...

washington dc porsche

Do not Wax/Seal if you have a haze on the paint. Polishing is the most important part of the procedure. You polish to get the optimal shine by removing paint defects/wear and tear. Once the paint is the way you want it you should then Wax to keep it looking that way.

2000996

RRoobbcc, Awesome post! Thanks for making this board great!

perfectlap

what you did was to induce new more fine swirls when you used your swirl remover.
When ever you are taking swirls you need to hit the car again with the least abrasive swirl remover
I guess in your case it's going back to 1.0 following your 2.0 application.
Ideally you should have started with 1.0 to see if it did the trick, then graduated to 2.0
and "covered your tracks" with 1.0

Once your done getting out the swirls I would then use an all purpose polish to remove the 1.0 and 2.0 that may be left on your paint. Presumably you don't need fillers because you will have eliminated the swirls.
At this point the paint is clean, swirl free and ready for sealing.
Once the sealant cures overnight, eiher add another layer for total coverage or move onto your Carnauba topper (P21S, Souveran, etc.) or acrylic glaze.

I always recommend finishing with an anti-static spray like FK1 425. It neutralizes the tendency of toppers and glazes to attract dust and in rainy weather acts like rainX for the paint. I just did my post winter clay barring after using the anti-static all winter after washes and the clay went back into the jar as clean as it came out. That was a first. Works great on the interior dash and plastic, as well as glass.

a soon to be 7 year old car (no garage)

Blackness

Jack,

First, do not apply a top coat until the paint looks as good as it possibly can. I'm not familiar with Meguiar's polishes. But, it seems that the Swirl Remover is a fairly aggressive polish that is hazing the finish. Not too uncommon for a compounding type polish. The term "glaze" to me means that the product contains some fillers that "fill in" the remaining scratches so that light doesn't bounce off the edges and makes them less noticeable. It sounds like you need a fine polish to remove the haze the swirl remover is creating, before you apply the Glaze.

I use the Menzerna products. I use their Intensive Polish to correct the deeper marks. It does not haze for me, even on my dark car. I then use their Final Polish II to get the best optical results. But, I only use the Intensive Polish where I need to. Not on the entire car by default. You should use the least aggressive polish that will do the job. You are removing some amount of finish after all.

Are you using a Porter Cable or some other random orbital polisher? What about the pads? If you want to try the Menzerna products, Properautocare.com is located in Tampa. That's where I get mine. No affiliation with them or Menzerna. The product just works for me.

jacksonking

Thanks to the posters -- especially Rob for the detailed tutorial.

I called the Meguiars helpline and they made a suggestion... I did one more round with the 2.0 Swirl remover and it removed the milky haze. So here's my whole process so far:

- Wash with Dawn
- Dry with new microfiber towels throuroghly
- Clay (I tried a new Turtlewax Liquid Claybar. Didn't like it... would use standard clay next time.)
- Washed with Dawn again
- Dried again
- Moved to garage under flourescent bulbs
- Misted with Z-6 Gloss Enhancer (quick detailer)
- Buffed clear
- Applied Z-4 bonding agent
- Applied Z-5 fine swirl remover 3 coats in three days (leaving car undriven and in garage)

Noticed I had just polished over a bunch of swirls and water marks and the Zaino just made them more visdible so I decided to start all over...

- Washed with Dawn
- Cleaned all upward facing surfaces with Turtle Wax rubbing compound. (removed most imperfections but left finish looking like courderoy under fluor light.
- Polished 4-5 times with Meguiars 2.0 swirl remover to eliminate courderoy (using RO polisher with various pads/bonnets)
- Polished 1 time with Meguiars Show Car Glaze
- Polished 1 time with Meguiars Deep Crystal Polish
- Buffed with Z-6 Gloss Enhancer
- Apply Z-4 Polimer bonding agent (don't buff off. Zaino does not make this anymore. I guess it's redundant)
- Sealed with Z-5
- Buffed throroughly (exhausted)

Removed tape -- admired finish in the poor late night darkness... (Wife thinks I'm insane from the long hours. Before work, during lunch, after work -- I wanted to finish this project and drive the car! But I wanted to be thorough and have the best finish I could.)

I still need a couple more coats of Z-5 or Z-2, and then I'm going to celebrate with a final coat of Mothers California Gold Pure Carnuba for "warmth."

If you've read this far along I have one more question:

1. Best car wash liquid soap:
2. Best Clay bar:
3. Best Abrasive Swirl Remover:
4. Best Swirl Filler:
5. Best Glaze:
6. Best Polymer Sealant:
7. Best Wax:

From my "reading" some of these may not matter -- and I know there are lots of preferences and loyalties, but I'd like to see if there is a consensus on some of the "gold standard" products.

I'd call if 4 steps:

1. Clean (including claybar if needed)
2. Remove swirls (if needed)
3. Polish
4. Seal (or Wax, or both)

Thanks for your assistance. This has been a very satisfying experience and I will be proud of all the time and energy I put into making my car look brand new.

2000996

Pics? Before after during?

jacksonking

Finished late last night... biz trip to Houson. Will post before and after pics this weekend. Thanks again! Jack

Troy R

Wow dude, that is a lot of work! Definately post some pics. I'd love to get my car polished like rroobbcc's, but crimeny, that sounds like a helluva lot of hours. I wonder if I can find some place to do it that will do it the correct way.

911fiend

Rob that is one clean 911. Looks awesome!

cdodkin

Jack,

with your dark car, I'd suggest you take a look at Sonus Swirlbuster Polish and pad for tackling swirls. Available from Autopia.

http://www.autopia-carcare.com/son-450.html

http://www.autopia-carcare.com/sonsbfpp.html

They are specifically designed to knock down swirls, and also fill what ever imperfections remain.

The polish is progressive, and works out into a very fine polish to eliminate any marring or hologram effects.

Finish with Klasse, or your personal fave sealant/wax

Here's the finish on my Black hood after two goes with the Swirlbuster polish and pad.



Here's the hood under a fluro lamp (always a good test)



Over all effect



Does what it says on the bottle!