Should I make the switch from 0W40 to 15W50
03-09-2007, 09:22 AM
#32
Originally Posted by LVDell
Bruce, don't forget that the TSB's on approved engine oils will supercede the manual.
Just refilled my coffee cup. No elephants in the kitchen, either. This stuff rocks.
03-09-2007, 09:36 AM
#34
Drifting
Originally Posted by discoganya
1) Should I make the switch? Has anyone else made the switch? Does the car feel any different ? (e.g. https://rennlist.com/forums/996-forum/292838-i-m-running-15w50-and.html)
2) Will it cause any problems in the short term (i.e. suddenly changing the type of oil)?
3) Will it cause any problems in the long term (i.e. seizure, more wear and tear, etc)?
2) Will it cause any problems in the short term (i.e. suddenly changing the type of oil)?
3) Will it cause any problems in the long term (i.e. seizure, more wear and tear, etc)?
1a) Only you can decide.
1b) Yes.
1c) Yes - variocam isn't usually as noticeable.
2) None that I've noticed.
3) None that I've noticed.
FWIW, I used to run 20w50 in my Corvette C4 track car, and I never had problems even when the car was cold soaked from sitting all night in sub-freezing temps. So I don't sweat it if the car is cold... I'm just saying that if I lived up North I wouldn't use 20w50 in the winter.
Michael
03-09-2007, 09:48 AM
#35
I run 0W-40 here in Central FL year round. That's what the dealership uses and what Mobil 1 recommends on their website. I only have ~21k miles on the engine, but no issues so far.
This "thicker is better" argument is similar to a "more is better". On that note, I think I'll go put another hole in my head. More must be better...right.
I wonder how my engine would run if I used the old grease out of the McDonalds fryers?
This "thicker is better" argument is similar to a "more is better". On that note, I think I'll go put another hole in my head. More must be better...right.
I wonder how my engine would run if I used the old grease out of the McDonalds fryers?
03-09-2007, 10:29 AM
#36
Race Car
Originally Posted by Blackness
I run 0W-40 here in Central FL year round. That's what the dealership uses and what Mobil 1 recommends on their website. I only have ~21k miles on the engine, but no issues so far.
This "thicker is better" argument is similar to a "more is better". On that note, I think I'll go put another hole in my head. More must be better...right.
I wonder how my engine would run if I used the old grease out of the McDonalds fryers?
This "thicker is better" argument is similar to a "more is better". On that note, I think I'll go put another hole in my head. More must be better...right.
I wonder how my engine would run if I used the old grease out of the McDonalds fryers?
It is NOT "thicker is better" , but too thin is bad.
03-09-2007, 10:51 AM
#38
Oil???...Oh yeah, for some reason I had a McRib and Fries on my brain... 
I figured that was about as useful a contribution to this thread as some of the other expert comments.
I figured that was about as useful a contribution to this thread as some of the other expert comments.
03-09-2007, 12:51 PM
#39
Drifting
Originally Posted by discoganya
I know, I know, this has been discussed to death. I've read almost all the threads, but I still can't make up my mind.
My Indy says they've had great luck with 15W50 , so he recommends getting it. My car has always had 0W40 from the dealer till now. The viscosity difference is about 21% at 100C (running conditions) but almost 56% at 40C (cold start). Keeping in mind the approaching warm weather ...
1) Should I make the switch? Has anyone else made the switch? Does the car feel any different ? (e.g. https://rennlist.com/forums/showthread.php?t=292838)
2) Will it cause any problems in the short term (i.e. suddenly changing the type of oil)?
3) Will it cause any problems in the long term (i.e. seizure, more wear and tear, etc)?
My Indy says they've had great luck with 15W50 , so he recommends getting it. My car has always had 0W40 from the dealer till now. The viscosity difference is about 21% at 100C (running conditions) but almost 56% at 40C (cold start). Keeping in mind the approaching warm weather ...
1) Should I make the switch? Has anyone else made the switch? Does the car feel any different ? (e.g. https://rennlist.com/forums/showthread.php?t=292838)
2) Will it cause any problems in the short term (i.e. suddenly changing the type of oil)?
3) Will it cause any problems in the long term (i.e. seizure, more wear and tear, etc)?
I never switched to 15W-50. That is what has always been used. The local dealerships used it. Us local owners who do our own oil changes used it. When Porsche took it off the list a few years ago I continued to use it.
When Mobil discontiuned the red top 15W-50 I started using the 15W-50 gold top EP. During the last oil change I also used an oil filter that Porsche does not use.
It is your car. The choice is yours.
http://www.renntech.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=9454
03-12-2007, 08:04 PM
#40
Banned
Thread Starter
Update: I used 15W50 this time and drove about 400 miles this weekend and today. I noticed two changes:
1. The car idles smoother than before. Earlier the tachometer would sometimes jitter a little around 700 RPM; this does not happen anymore.
2. Cold start up noise is a little lesser.
OK, it's been only 3 days since my oil change and I might be imagining some of this. I'll post a long term update (3-4 months) if I find something interesting. On the other hand, I'll be all too happy if I find nothing interesting
1. The car idles smoother than before. Earlier the tachometer would sometimes jitter a little around 700 RPM; this does not happen anymore.
2. Cold start up noise is a little lesser.
OK, it's been only 3 days since my oil change and I might be imagining some of this. I'll post a long term update (3-4 months) if I find something interesting. On the other hand, I'll be all too happy if I find nothing interesting
03-12-2007, 08:49 PM
#41
Ironman 140.6
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
1999Porsche911 likes to throw his opinion around but here are what some Porsche experts have to say on this issue;
The current issue of Excellence Magazine (April 2007) addresses aspects of the 0W-40 "oil" topic in a different manner. Both technical experts claim that newer Porsches require the thinner oil to ensure proper VarioCam function.
On page 34 a reader asks a question about using 10W-40 oil (for a Boxster) in Florida vs Mobil 0W-40. He is concerned about using the 0W-40 because 10W-30 or 10W-40 is a "more common fill" in Florida (he also asks about break-in). The response from the Excellence technical expert was as follows.
"Those who suggest higher viscosity oils usually don't understand the whole problem. Oil in engines is no longer just a lubricant. It is also a coolant for the engine as well as a hydralic control fluid for all of the things like VarioCam Plus, hydraulic lifters, and similar systems. If the oil is too high a viscosity, it can affect the way those circuits operate.
The 2001 996 Turbo was the first Porsche to use the VarioCam Plus technology and a friend who works as a dealer technician told me that one of their technicians spend the whole day trying to diagnose a running problem caused by an owner who hadn't trusted Porsches factory fill and thus changed his oil to SAE 20W-50. The heavier oil totally confused the VarioCam plus system and the engine ran poorly.
All of these devices have been designed to run with the SAE 0W-40 oils or other oils that Porsche recommends. Use only those oils recommended in your owners manual - SAE 0W-40, SAE 5W-40, or SAE 5W-50. Porsche is so sure about this decision that it came out with a bulletin recommending these oils for all of its older models as well."
Now I know that is just one "experts" opinion. However, on page 169 Porsche tech expert Jim Pasha dedicates his entire "Tech Forum" article (6 pages worth) to "Oil". I'm not going to type in all 6 pages of material but I will quote a few short pieces of what Jim reports in his column (he covers a lot of ground in his article).
"Why does Porsche specify such a low lower viscosity rating? The answer comes in two parts. First, in a quest for better fuel economy and longer engine life, Porsche engineers use bearing and cylinder-wall clearances far tighter than what they used previously. This creates less internal drag on components, and lighter oil is more compatible with tight tolerances."
He also says;
"In the latest Porsches, which use 0W-40, the thinner oil is critical to delicate systems that use motor oil as a hydralic activator. VarioCam Plus uses tiny "shafts" of oil created under high pressure to help the system alter valve timing. It is a trick system but it REQUIRES thin oil to work properly
Finally here is what Porsche says on the matter;
http://www.wrightune.co.uk/downloads/approved_oils.pdf
To the best of my knowledge, 1999Porsche911 never responded to the thread in February when this information was originally published.
I'd love to read his reasoning now. So, let's hear it 1999Porsche911. Why do the experts I listed above (plus Porsche's own engineers) have it all wrong??? Please tell me you have something better than it works fine in my car.
Can't wait for the response!!
The current issue of Excellence Magazine (April 2007) addresses aspects of the 0W-40 "oil" topic in a different manner. Both technical experts claim that newer Porsches require the thinner oil to ensure proper VarioCam function.
On page 34 a reader asks a question about using 10W-40 oil (for a Boxster) in Florida vs Mobil 0W-40. He is concerned about using the 0W-40 because 10W-30 or 10W-40 is a "more common fill" in Florida (he also asks about break-in). The response from the Excellence technical expert was as follows.
"Those who suggest higher viscosity oils usually don't understand the whole problem. Oil in engines is no longer just a lubricant. It is also a coolant for the engine as well as a hydralic control fluid for all of the things like VarioCam Plus, hydraulic lifters, and similar systems. If the oil is too high a viscosity, it can affect the way those circuits operate.
The 2001 996 Turbo was the first Porsche to use the VarioCam Plus technology and a friend who works as a dealer technician told me that one of their technicians spend the whole day trying to diagnose a running problem caused by an owner who hadn't trusted Porsches factory fill and thus changed his oil to SAE 20W-50. The heavier oil totally confused the VarioCam plus system and the engine ran poorly.
All of these devices have been designed to run with the SAE 0W-40 oils or other oils that Porsche recommends. Use only those oils recommended in your owners manual - SAE 0W-40, SAE 5W-40, or SAE 5W-50. Porsche is so sure about this decision that it came out with a bulletin recommending these oils for all of its older models as well."
Now I know that is just one "experts" opinion. However, on page 169 Porsche tech expert Jim Pasha dedicates his entire "Tech Forum" article (6 pages worth) to "Oil". I'm not going to type in all 6 pages of material but I will quote a few short pieces of what Jim reports in his column (he covers a lot of ground in his article).
"Why does Porsche specify such a low lower viscosity rating? The answer comes in two parts. First, in a quest for better fuel economy and longer engine life, Porsche engineers use bearing and cylinder-wall clearances far tighter than what they used previously. This creates less internal drag on components, and lighter oil is more compatible with tight tolerances."
He also says;
"In the latest Porsches, which use 0W-40, the thinner oil is critical to delicate systems that use motor oil as a hydralic activator. VarioCam Plus uses tiny "shafts" of oil created under high pressure to help the system alter valve timing. It is a trick system but it REQUIRES thin oil to work properly
Finally here is what Porsche says on the matter;
http://www.wrightune.co.uk/downloads/approved_oils.pdf
To the best of my knowledge, 1999Porsche911 never responded to the thread in February when this information was originally published.
I'd love to read his reasoning now. So, let's hear it 1999Porsche911. Why do the experts I listed above (plus Porsche's own engineers) have it all wrong??? Please tell me you have something better than it works fine in my car.
Can't wait for the response!!
03-12-2007, 09:46 PM
#43
Race Car
Originally Posted by Ray S
1999Porsche911 likes to throw his opinion around but here are what some Porsche experts have to say on this issue;
The current issue of Excellence Magazine (April 2007) addresses aspects of the 0W-40 "oil" topic in a different manner. Both technical experts claim that newer Porsches require the thinner oil to ensure proper VarioCam function.
On page 34 a reader asks a question about using 10W-40 oil (for a Boxster) in Florida vs Mobil 0W-40. He is concerned about using the 0W-40 because 10W-30 or 10W-40 is a "more common fill" in Florida (he also asks about break-in). The response from the Excellence technical expert was as follows.
"Those who suggest higher viscosity oils usually don't understand the whole problem. Oil in engines is no longer just a lubricant. It is also a coolant for the engine as well as a hydralic control fluid for all of the things like VarioCam Plus, hydraulic lifters, and similar systems. If the oil is too high a viscosity, it can affect the way those circuits operate.
The 2001 996 Turbo was the first Porsche to use the VarioCam Plus technology and a friend who works as a dealer technician told me that one of their technicians spend the whole day trying to diagnose a running problem caused by an owner who hadn't trusted Porsches factory fill and thus changed his oil to SAE 20W-50. The heavier oil totally confused the VarioCam plus system and the engine ran poorly.
All of these devices have been designed to run with the SAE 0W-40 oils or other oils that Porsche recommends. Use only those oils recommended in your owners manual - SAE 0W-40, SAE 5W-40, or SAE 5W-50. Porsche is so sure about this decision that it came out with a bulletin recommending these oils for all of its older models as well."
Now I know that is just one "experts" opinion. However, on page 169 Porsche tech expert Jim Pasha dedicates his entire "Tech Forum" article (6 pages worth) to "Oil". I'm not going to type in all 6 pages of material but I will quote a few short pieces of what Jim reports in his column (he covers a lot of ground in his article).
"Why does Porsche specify such a low lower viscosity rating? The answer comes in two parts. First, in a quest for better fuel economy and longer engine life, Porsche engineers use bearing and cylinder-wall clearances far tighter than what they used previously. This creates less internal drag on components, and lighter oil is more compatible with tight tolerances."
He also says;
"In the latest Porsches, which use 0W-40, the thinner oil is critical to delicate systems that use motor oil as a hydralic activator. VarioCam Plus uses tiny "shafts" of oil created under high pressure to help the system alter valve timing. It is a trick system but it REQUIRES thin oil to work properly
Finally here is what Porsche says on the matter;
http://www.wrightune.co.uk/downloads/approved_oils.pdf
To the best of my knowledge, 1999Porsche911 never responded to the thread in February when this information was originally published.
I'd love to read his reasoning now. So, let's hear it 1999Porsche911. Why do the experts I listed above (plus Porsche's own engineers) have it all wrong??? Please tell me you have something better than it works fine in my car.
Can't wait for the response!!
The current issue of Excellence Magazine (April 2007) addresses aspects of the 0W-40 "oil" topic in a different manner. Both technical experts claim that newer Porsches require the thinner oil to ensure proper VarioCam function.
On page 34 a reader asks a question about using 10W-40 oil (for a Boxster) in Florida vs Mobil 0W-40. He is concerned about using the 0W-40 because 10W-30 or 10W-40 is a "more common fill" in Florida (he also asks about break-in). The response from the Excellence technical expert was as follows.
"Those who suggest higher viscosity oils usually don't understand the whole problem. Oil in engines is no longer just a lubricant. It is also a coolant for the engine as well as a hydralic control fluid for all of the things like VarioCam Plus, hydraulic lifters, and similar systems. If the oil is too high a viscosity, it can affect the way those circuits operate.
The 2001 996 Turbo was the first Porsche to use the VarioCam Plus technology and a friend who works as a dealer technician told me that one of their technicians spend the whole day trying to diagnose a running problem caused by an owner who hadn't trusted Porsches factory fill and thus changed his oil to SAE 20W-50. The heavier oil totally confused the VarioCam plus system and the engine ran poorly.
All of these devices have been designed to run with the SAE 0W-40 oils or other oils that Porsche recommends. Use only those oils recommended in your owners manual - SAE 0W-40, SAE 5W-40, or SAE 5W-50. Porsche is so sure about this decision that it came out with a bulletin recommending these oils for all of its older models as well."
Now I know that is just one "experts" opinion. However, on page 169 Porsche tech expert Jim Pasha dedicates his entire "Tech Forum" article (6 pages worth) to "Oil". I'm not going to type in all 6 pages of material but I will quote a few short pieces of what Jim reports in his column (he covers a lot of ground in his article).
"Why does Porsche specify such a low lower viscosity rating? The answer comes in two parts. First, in a quest for better fuel economy and longer engine life, Porsche engineers use bearing and cylinder-wall clearances far tighter than what they used previously. This creates less internal drag on components, and lighter oil is more compatible with tight tolerances."
He also says;
"In the latest Porsches, which use 0W-40, the thinner oil is critical to delicate systems that use motor oil as a hydralic activator. VarioCam Plus uses tiny "shafts" of oil created under high pressure to help the system alter valve timing. It is a trick system but it REQUIRES thin oil to work properly
Finally here is what Porsche says on the matter;
http://www.wrightune.co.uk/downloads/approved_oils.pdf
To the best of my knowledge, 1999Porsche911 never responded to the thread in February when this information was originally published.
I'd love to read his reasoning now. So, let's hear it 1999Porsche911. Why do the experts I listed above (plus Porsche's own engineers) have it all wrong??? Please tell me you have something better than it works fine in my car.
Can't wait for the response!!
Sorry, but that article had nothing to do with the Variocam of the 00 engine as this thread does. Nice try, tho. Secondly, rather than living your life reading and following the opinions of others, why not actually do some testing. Then, whatever your position is, at least you have some data to back it up.
I don't preach opinions of others, just my 35 years of experience.
You did notice he stated that the engine was designed for 5W50 oil, didn't you? Or did you read over that part? And you are aware that a 15W50 oil at operating temperature is no different than a 5W50, don't you? So, please explain why a 15W50 is bad for the engine. is 5W50 is not.
No one needs to follow anyone's opinion on thus forums, but they should have access to all the opinions to help make a judgement for themselves.
03-12-2007, 10:01 PM
#44
Rennlist Member
1999, as usual, shows that he lacks even the most basic understanding of oils and viscosity differences. One needs only to look at his posting history. Be careful before you follow any of the advice he gives on oils. When confronted with facts he will deny their worthiness and become defensive and claim no facts have ever been presented to him. Opinions and conjecture are worthless. Documented,real world testing and countless Used Oil Analysis reports, as well as the manufacturers updated recommendations should be enough to give the rational and intelligent owner reason enough to follow the TSB's on Porsches oil recommendations.
03-12-2007, 10:05 PM
#45
Rennlist Member
https://www.pca.org/tech/tech_qa_question.asp?id={D7EC45C3-9BA1-4C61-B220-8BA6874F1C20}
check the following link for some more info on the subject...
check the following link for some more info on the subject...