One for the filthy rich guys :)
02-25-2007, 09:53 PM
#94
Cap'n Insane the Engorged
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Originally Posted by hamilton
that is pretty amazing. has nobody looked at the video I linked to? Some of these boats are incredible...
Watched the vid, power boats aren't my thing and that Wallyboat is Fugly - pretty amazing performance though.
02-25-2007, 11:49 PM
#95
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Originally Posted by LVDell
oh hamilton, you really don't understand the tax code do you??? 
Most of us have mortgages that are in the 5% range (which is even lower after the tax shelter) and that is some of the cheapest money you can borrow. To have that mortgage will free up $$$ that you can use in investments. And those my friend if you are even conservative can easily bringback 10-15%. Do the math.
Most of us have mortgages that are in the 5% range (which is even lower after the tax shelter) and that is some of the cheapest money you can borrow. To have that mortgage will free up $$$ that you can use in investments. And those my friend if you are even conservative can easily bringback 10-15%. Do the math.
Seriously, for long term retirement, no one should look at more than 2.5% aftertax with preservation of capital on liquid assets. More would be foolish.
And BTW the really smart people are using 1.5% (ie 20mio of liquid assets for 300k anually spending money). Most people don't want to believe it because it is such a high number to reach. But when you have a shot at it, you won't stop short of it.
Just to throw it out there, $50mio is the minimum for a private yacht (80 feet+ with crew) and $200mio is the minimum for owning a plane when no extra income comes in.
A few fact for you: long term, housing cost and stock market valuation cannot exceed growth. Baby boomers will retire at some point. Luxury goods inflation far exceeds the official inflation numbers.
02-26-2007, 12:34 AM
#96
Race Car
Originally Posted by SciFrog
If you think you can return 10-15% with very low risk, whatever you do you are in the wrong business, forget everything else and raise some money
Seriously, for long term retirement, no one should look at more than 2.5% aftertax with preservation of capital on liquid assets. More would be foolish.
And BTW the really smart people are using 1.5% (ie 20mio of liquid assets for 300k anually spending money). Most people don't want to believe it because it is such a high number to reach. But when you have a shot at it, you won't stop short of it.
Just to throw it out there, $50mio is the minimum for a private yacht (80 feet+ with crew) and $200mio is the minimum for owning a plane when no extra income comes in.
A few fact for you: long term, housing cost and stock market valuation cannot exceed growth. Baby boomers will retire at some point. Luxury goods inflation far exceeds the official inflation numbers.
Seriously, for long term retirement, no one should look at more than 2.5% aftertax with preservation of capital on liquid assets. More would be foolish.
And BTW the really smart people are using 1.5% (ie 20mio of liquid assets for 300k anually spending money). Most people don't want to believe it because it is such a high number to reach. But when you have a shot at it, you won't stop short of it.
Just to throw it out there, $50mio is the minimum for a private yacht (80 feet+ with crew) and $200mio is the minimum for owning a plane when no extra income comes in.
A few fact for you: long term, housing cost and stock market valuation cannot exceed growth. Baby boomers will retire at some point. Luxury goods inflation far exceeds the official inflation numbers.
Well, I am glad I do not hang with the "smart" people who only plan on making 1.5% after tax in a safe investment. I guess they have never heard of US Treasuries, where, currently, their after tax return would be 3%. Doesn't sound like a big difference, but in your example above, the "smart" guy just found an extra $300,000 in spending money each year.
There are many other conservative investment sfor liquid assets that consistantly return substantially more in after tax returns too. Anyone who has $20,000,000 and cannot average a 10%+ return a year in reletively safe investments did not earn that money, but had it given to him.
02-26-2007, 01:13 AM
#97
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5% treasuries, minus 35% federal tax (ie 1.75%) minus 2% inflation (preservation of capital), leaves 1.25%.
Account for low current int rates and long term you can do a little better, ie 2.5%.
Of course you can spend the capital over some time, but what if you live until 100 years old because of medical advances?
Of course you can do better than 5% a year, but it involves risk.
Why do you think the US treasury can lend as much as they do at the rate they do?
In your world, no one would buy these treasuries because they yield too little.
Guess what, every auction is oversuscribed.
The answer is because they have no risk, unlike other investments.
Another point: if it is that easy to make over 5% a year whithout risk, why wouldn't everyone sell treasuries and invest the capital, no need to work then!
If you think different, I suggest you try to talk to the right people or to read more about it.
Of course you should invest some of your capital in more risky higher return assets like stocks. But what if you want (and can afford) to take zero risk. What if you want to be OK for the next 60+ years?
Again, sorry you heard different from estate planner who want your money to invest, but think long and hard...
Account for low current int rates and long term you can do a little better, ie 2.5%.
Of course you can spend the capital over some time, but what if you live until 100 years old because of medical advances?
Of course you can do better than 5% a year, but it involves risk.
Why do you think the US treasury can lend as much as they do at the rate they do?
In your world, no one would buy these treasuries because they yield too little.
Guess what, every auction is oversuscribed.
The answer is because they have no risk, unlike other investments.
Another point: if it is that easy to make over 5% a year whithout risk, why wouldn't everyone sell treasuries and invest the capital, no need to work then!
If you think different, I suggest you try to talk to the right people or to read more about it.
Of course you should invest some of your capital in more risky higher return assets like stocks. But what if you want (and can afford) to take zero risk. What if you want to be OK for the next 60+ years?
Again, sorry you heard different from estate planner who want your money to invest, but think long and hard...
02-26-2007, 01:13 AM
#98
Burning Brakes
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The returns in my retirement savings have been 15.7% in the last 1 year, and 14.3% in the last 3 years.
But when I plan for retirement, I do not assume 8% returns as it seems so many "experts" and websites tell you to. If, through luck, I get 8% or more, I'll be a very happy man. I won't be surprised, but just because it's happened in the past doesn't mean it will happen in the future.
(Obviously I am not saying this is the general case - there are tons of ways to invest money - just that there are so many assumptions taken for granted out there)
But when I plan for retirement, I do not assume 8% returns as it seems so many "experts" and websites tell you to. If, through luck, I get 8% or more, I'll be a very happy man. I won't be surprised, but just because it's happened in the past doesn't mean it will happen in the future.
(Obviously I am not saying this is the general case - there are tons of ways to invest money - just that there are so many assumptions taken for granted out there)
02-26-2007, 01:23 AM
#99
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Problem is people only remember the recent past. Look back further at real estate and stocks, you will be very very surprised.
8% minimum for your retirement? Some people are in for some very rude awakening.
And lets say you can make 8% a year for the next 30 years in stocks/bonds/real estate. So will everybody else. You really think inflation will be 2% in that scenario?
8% minimum for your retirement? Some people are in for some very rude awakening.
And lets say you can make 8% a year for the next 30 years in stocks/bonds/real estate. So will everybody else. You really think inflation will be 2% in that scenario?
02-26-2007, 10:02 AM
#100
Race Car
Originally Posted by SciFrog
5% treasuries, minus 35% federal tax (ie 1.75%) minus 2% inflation (preservation of capital), leaves 1.25%.
Account for low current int rates and long term you can do a little better, ie 2.5%.
Of course you can spend the capital over some time, but what if you live until 100 years old because of medical advances?
Of course you can do better than 5% a year, but it involves risk.
Why do you think the US treasury can lend as much as they do at the rate they do?
In your world, no one would buy these treasuries because they yield too little.
Guess what, every auction is oversuscribed.
The answer is because they have no risk, unlike other investments.
Another point: if it is that easy to make over 5% a year whithout risk, why wouldn't everyone sell treasuries and invest the capital, no need to work then!
If you think different, I suggest you try to talk to the right people or to read more about it.
Of course you should invest some of your capital in more risky higher return assets like stocks. But what if you want (and can afford) to take zero risk. What if you want to be OK for the next 60+ years?
Again, sorry you heard different from estate planner who want your money to invest, but think long and hard...
Account for low current int rates and long term you can do a little better, ie 2.5%.
Of course you can spend the capital over some time, but what if you live until 100 years old because of medical advances?
Of course you can do better than 5% a year, but it involves risk.
Why do you think the US treasury can lend as much as they do at the rate they do?
In your world, no one would buy these treasuries because they yield too little.
Guess what, every auction is oversuscribed.
The answer is because they have no risk, unlike other investments.
Another point: if it is that easy to make over 5% a year whithout risk, why wouldn't everyone sell treasuries and invest the capital, no need to work then!
If you think different, I suggest you try to talk to the right people or to read more about it.
Of course you should invest some of your capital in more risky higher return assets like stocks. But what if you want (and can afford) to take zero risk. What if you want to be OK for the next 60+ years?
Again, sorry you heard different from estate planner who want your money to invest, but think long and hard...
Well, I guess you'll never accumulate much wealth thinking that way. Better check your math, A 5% pretax return would have an after tax of 3.25% and reduce it by another 2.5% for inflation, you are left with 3.15% return not the 1.25% you stated. And why are assuming that all investments are taxable?
Of course if you calculate you retirement return based on that kind of math, you won't be left with much.
And, NO, you do not want to eliminate all risk in your investments just because you retire. I have learned by doing and not by reading books or running to a financial planner. Experience is the truth, not a text book.
02-26-2007, 10:06 AM
#101
Race Car
Originally Posted by SciFrog
Problem is people only remember the recent past. Look back further at real estate and stocks, you will be very very surprised.
8% minimum for your retirement? Some people are in for some very rude awakening.
And lets say you can make 8% a year for the next 30 years in stocks/bonds/real estate. So will everybody else. You really think inflation will be 2% in that scenario?
8% minimum for your retirement? Some people are in for some very rude awakening.
And lets say you can make 8% a year for the next 30 years in stocks/bonds/real estate. So will everybody else. You really think inflation will be 2% in that scenario?
02-26-2007, 12:22 PM
#102
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The math is fine, 3.25% - 2% = 1.25% real net return with NO RISK.
I am not saying everybody should do just treasuries,
I am just stating that without risk, this is the best you can do.
All other strategies involve some degree of uncertainty.
A timely CNN article:
http://money.cnn.com/2007/02/20/maga...ex.htm?cnn=yes
I am not saying everybody should do just treasuries,
I am just stating that without risk, this is the best you can do.
All other strategies involve some degree of uncertainty.
A timely CNN article:
http://money.cnn.com/2007/02/20/maga...ex.htm?cnn=yes
02-26-2007, 12:50 PM
#103
Race Car
Originally Posted by SciFrog
The math is fine, 3.25% - 2% = 1.25% real net return with NO RISK.
I am not saying everybody should do just treasuries,
I am just stating that without risk, this is the best you can do.
All other strategies involve some degree of uncertainty.
A timely CNN article:
http://money.cnn.com/2007/02/20/maga...ex.htm?cnn=yes
I am not saying everybody should do just treasuries,
I am just stating that without risk, this is the best you can do.
All other strategies involve some degree of uncertainty.
A timely CNN article:
http://money.cnn.com/2007/02/20/maga...ex.htm?cnn=yes
You math IS NOT correct. What is 2% of 3.25%? If you need remedial math courses, Sylvan Learning offers them. Also, Treasuries ARE not the only investemnt with NO RISK.
I sure hope you are not a money manager, or accountant or other job where number maniplulation is required..
02-26-2007, 01:32 PM
#105
Three Wheelin'
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Originally Posted by 1999Porsche911
You math IS NOT correct. What is 2% of 3.25%? If you need remedial math courses, Sylvan Learning offers them. Also, Treasuries ARE not the only investemnt with NO RISK.
I sure hope you are not a money manager, or accountant or other job where number maniplulation is required..
I sure hope you are not a money manager, or accountant or other job where number maniplulation is required..