AndyK

I was originally going to start looking for a 993. But, owning an 18-year-old 944, I finally figured that buying another antique would only bring me (and the wife) grief. Then, I checked Cars.com for 996's, and see $75k cars selling for $40k or less!? Interesting bargain, or is there something wrong in P-Car land?

I have used the search function to educate myself on the 996. I see all the RMS, Engine blow-up, clutch replacements at 30k threads, etc, and have to wonder - do most 911 owners drive the hell out of their cars, resulting in premature wear, tear, or blow ups? Would a "garage queen" 996 C2 have the same need for a new clutch, RMS repair, tranny replacement, at 30k miles?

I plan on driving my future 996, but not tracking or racing it. If I buy an '02 with low miles will I still need to expect the worst as far as repairs go, or will a gently treated 996 reward me with mostly disaster-free driving?

I've owned a 944 for the past 5 years, and know these cars need maintenance and repairs. But replacing the clutch or engine on a car with 30k miles has me wondering if a 996 is the wrong way to go?

Thanks!

Andy

LVDell

Oh Christ, here we go again. Grab some popcorn and pour a nice drink and let the games begin. Buckle up Andy, it's gonna get bumpy.

AndyK

Maybe I should re-phrase: Do you have to race a 996 to cause all the issues that SOME people have complained about (RMS, clutch / tranny failure, engine failure)?

If it gets ugly, I can always retreat back to the 944 forum!

LVDell

Maybe you should define RACE. If by race you mean DE then no. I have tracked both of my 996's extensively and the CAB for over 3 years now and the damn thing is BULLETPROOF! Clutch though needs to be reomved from your question since that is a wear item that you could burnm in a weekend or take care of to last 100K miles. That is a driving style issue.

RMS? That's a crap shoot. I have NEVER had an RMS in my 996CAB and we are going on 7 years of ownership now.

Ray S

RMS is a potential problem on all 986's and 996's and to a lesser extent all 987's and 997's with the M96 engine. Every new year/revised seal has brought the numbers down but the problem has never totally been eliminated.

However, it is only a leaky seal and many wait to fix it until they replace their clutch.

Here is an article on Renntech that describes the problem

http://www.renntech.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=6731

As far as the engine replacements go you will find huge disagreements on this issue. Some feel every M96 car is a ticking bomb with an engine waiting to blow. Others believe the problems are extremely rare. I think part of the problem is brought on by Porsche and how they treat repairs on these engines. With earlier Porsches, dealers would tear down faulty engines diagnose the problem and repair the engine if possible. Now Porsche tells dealers to pull the entire engine crate it up and ship it back for a "core exchange" new motor (roughly $11k). I believe as a whole these are pretty good motors but isolated problems can occur.

The early 986's and 996's did have some issues with slipped engine sleeves. Additionally, some of the earlier cars have had coolant intermix problems.

For more info on the M96 read this;

http://www.renntech.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=6470

I have two cars (986 and 996) with M96 motors and they have both been two of the most trouble free vehicles that I have ever owned. I would not hesitate to buy another.

My advice;
- buy the latest example you can afford
- get a complete PPI by a reputable Porsche mechanic
- buy a Porsche certified car or aftermarket warantee if you feel the need for extra protection
- buy from an private owner or dealer you feel you can trust.

pl

Andy,
remind you there's a rennlist selling his 2000 CPO 996 coupe for < 30K.

u should grab it

AndyK

Two important requirements for me: Arctic Silver + Glove box!

LVDell

You have glove box as a requirement? I've heard of some odd requirements but that is definitely a new one for me.

pl

all my cars are Arctic Silver, and i love them. but Glove box?!
why do u need it? or is it meant to be a joke?

AndyK

It was meant as a joke. As long as there is somewhere to put my insurance card, and a CD or two, I am fine with a 99-01! but Arctic Silver is mandatory.

And, when my wife asks "where's the glove box??", I can just floor it, right?

Paul 996

Andy,

Like other's said. RMS is just a seal. 15-20 bucks, unfortunately you need to take the transmission off to get to it so therein is the fear of the dreaded RMS is the cost. My car is now on it's 2nd one. My car needed a clutch at 65K and while it was all open the RMS was noted as moist so it was replaced with a newer style as a preventative measure. Most leave it alone until the leak is really bad or it is time to do a clutch.

There are a number of other items that come up on the 996 as preventative maintenance, coolant expansion tanks, oil seperator, Cam cover gasket or Spark Plug tubes developing oil leaks, etc.

As for engines blowing and transmissions blowing up.... I guess search and make your own call. They are great cars, just like the 993s are (which have their own little list of issues) as I am sure your 944 has and you have lived with.

Hopefully, welcome to the club.

Dave Howerdel

No rear main seal!?!?
Man, you motor must leak like a sieve!

Blackness

I beat mine once a day whether it needs it or not.

BruceP

Speaking only as a relatively new owner, fresh from the purchase experience, here's my .02 (which, along with a buck and a half, will buy you a cup of coffee). This is just how I processed all this stuff:

996s have weak resale for three reasons. One, they made more of them than any previous 911. Two, they were a technological departure from the 'authentic' formula, so they take the hit while the new 911 formula establishes itself. And three, rumours flew all over the internet about reliability issues. Trust me, speaking as a Land Rover owner, that phenomenon can hurt resale, but also make the cars available to people who would never otherwise been able to afford one.

Reliability wise, I think they are phenomenal cars. People fuss about little things going wrong, but that's partly a function of high expectations from the marque and maybe a certain newness to sports cars. I have all the service records for my '00, and there's nothing in the history of the car that you wouldn't have experienced with a Honda, if you were as picky as a Porsche owner. For what they are, they seem bulletproof. The RMS thing is not worth worrying about, IMHO. It's a leak. Psychologically upsetting, driveway staining in the worst case. But if you're reasonably diligent about it, it's not a big deal. And the cost just isn't that high, factored into the big picture of maintenance. I think it pisses people off because it's unpredictable and they expect a Porsche to be perfect. But it's just a leak.

The engine failure issue is real, I'm convinced of that. You just have to decide whether the car would still be satisfying to own if it cost you ten or twelve large more than the purchase price. Your odds are somewhere in the mid-single digits that it will happen to you, is my feeling from reading everything I could find. For me, a new engine wouldn't be financially fatal, and my investment in the car as a result would exceed it's resale value. But I'm not selling it. And after I licked my wounds, I'd have a new engine to enjoy. You can't enjoy a car if you're afraid of it, and there's no other reason to own a Porsche than enjoyment.

And I'll put my hand up as the lone dissenter to the view that you should buy the lowest mileage car you can afford. I wouldn't touch an ultra-low mileage 996 with a barge pole. Well driven, well cared for is the way to buy a used car, for my money. Cars that routinely get less than a few thousand miles a year or so are total wild cards. My observation - just me, just anecdotal - is that this is especially true of 996s.

I love mine, even as it sits in the parking lot with a dead battery, punishing me for not driving it in the salty slop around here. To be able to drive something exotic, yet do it every day withouth discomfort, not compromise life's other priorities to afford it, and not be terrified of the cost of using it is a real treat. You don't get your cake and eat it too like that often in life.

Hope none of the foregoing offended anybody. I just thought it might be useful to hear a point of view that's realistic AND positive.

AndyK

When I was reading up on 993's, and found that most suffer from the annoying check engine light caused by clogged air ports, or worse, valve guide wear, I figured the hell with older 911's!

Leaking RMS is annoying. it would be VERY annoying if I paid $70k for the car! At $40k, not as bad!

If the first leak is fixed by Porsche, and the repair comes with a 2-year warranty--then it leaks again, is the warranty repair warranteed - for another 2 years?? Talking about a warranty...
Are these CPO warranties offered by Porsche dealers only, or would any dealer offer one?

Thanks for the input Bruce - my goal is to NOT factor in another $11k for a new engine! Not only would I empty my checking account - my wife would beat me to death with my torque wrench!!