Has anyone ever done a yes/no M96 failure poll?
02-13-2007, 06:36 PM
#61
Burning Brakes
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Luckily, only one "catastrophic" back failure for me, but I'd trade it for an engine failure in a second 
Congrats on two successful outcomes and glad you are enjoying both. Nice scenery/pic for your avatar as well.
Congrats on two successful outcomes and glad you are enjoying both. Nice scenery/pic for your avatar as well.
02-13-2007, 06:40 PM
#62
Instructor
Thread Starter
One problem with that logic is that by far the majority of the people the browse this forum did NOT come here with engine failures. At least that seems to be the concensus from reading various threads on this topic. I know I certainly did not.
Originally Posted by itorque
Here is my take on this subject. My 03 996 engine had to be replaced due to excessive knocking in the intermediate shaft area (it is an early 03 996). This prompted me to do an internet search on this problem and I found and joined this forum as a result. I would guess that many other 996 owners with engine failures found this forum the same way. This, to me, means that this forum shows a heavy bias towards engine failures because if I never had a problem I would not be on this site.
Another example (forgive me for getting into this but the example applies perfectly):
I had two artificial discs put in my lower back last year (I flew from the U.S. to Germany to get it done) . I belong to a forum of people that are considering getting an ADR (Artificial Disc Replacement) and those that have had it done (kind of like those that are considering a 996 and those that have one....a stretch but it works). If you used this ADR forum to determine if you want to get one done you would get scared away because most people on the site are those that are unhappy with their surgery and are still looking for answers. Everyone else (who by far make up the majority) has had a good outcome and have returned to their life and no longer hang out and post.
The mechanic story can also be applied to this experience. There are doctors who have seen terrible results from botched ADR jobs. These doctors will tell their patients to never get an ADR because of their limited experience with poor outcomes, when in fact a very high percentage of patients are very happy with the results. So by listening to one doctor (mechanic) your are not getting the full story.
So, IMHO, you should not and cannot make any conclusions based on a poll from this site as it is absolutely biased to one direction-just by its nature.
What's great is if you are one of those that have had an engine failure you can use this forum to learn about the process of getting it replaced, learn about how best to break it in and learn about a whole bunch of other great stuff for and about your car. But DON'T use it to make a call on how reliable 996 engines are because this is where those that have engine failures may (and should) reside.
P.S. My remanufactured German bionic back is 100% pain free along with my German remanufactured 996 engine. The only regret I have is that I could not afford a GT3 because the cost of the surgery was about the difference between the cost of a Targa and a GT3. But, I will take no back pain and a 996 targa any day!
Another example (forgive me for getting into this but the example applies perfectly):
I had two artificial discs put in my lower back last year (I flew from the U.S. to Germany to get it done) . I belong to a forum of people that are considering getting an ADR (Artificial Disc Replacement) and those that have had it done (kind of like those that are considering a 996 and those that have one....a stretch but it works). If you used this ADR forum to determine if you want to get one done you would get scared away because most people on the site are those that are unhappy with their surgery and are still looking for answers. Everyone else (who by far make up the majority) has had a good outcome and have returned to their life and no longer hang out and post.
The mechanic story can also be applied to this experience. There are doctors who have seen terrible results from botched ADR jobs. These doctors will tell their patients to never get an ADR because of their limited experience with poor outcomes, when in fact a very high percentage of patients are very happy with the results. So by listening to one doctor (mechanic) your are not getting the full story.
So, IMHO, you should not and cannot make any conclusions based on a poll from this site as it is absolutely biased to one direction-just by its nature.
What's great is if you are one of those that have had an engine failure you can use this forum to learn about the process of getting it replaced, learn about how best to break it in and learn about a whole bunch of other great stuff for and about your car. But DON'T use it to make a call on how reliable 996 engines are because this is where those that have engine failures may (and should) reside.
P.S. My remanufactured German bionic back is 100% pain free along with my German remanufactured 996 engine. The only regret I have is that I could not afford a GT3 because the cost of the surgery was about the difference between the cost of a Targa and a GT3. But, I will take no back pain and a 996 targa any day!
02-13-2007, 07:55 PM
#63
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Originally Posted by BrockPorsche
One problem with that logic is that by far the majority of the people the browse this forum did NOT come here with engine failures. At least that seems to be the concensus from reading various threads on this topic. I know I certainly did not.
02-13-2007, 08:31 PM
#64
Instructor
Thread Starter
I get that 
Read the thread. It's all about relative comparisons, not absolute statistics. A poll here for the sake of a poll is relatively meaningless, as has been pointed out numerous times by the poll police
Read the thread. It's all about relative comparisons, not absolute statistics. A poll here for the sake of a poll is relatively meaningless, as has been pointed out numerous times by the poll police
02-13-2007, 08:44 PM
#65
Originally Posted by BrockPorsche
I get that Read the thread. It's all about relative comparisons, not absolute statistics. A poll here for the sake of a poll is relatively meaningless, as has been pointed out numerous times by the poll police
Read the thread. It's all about relative comparisons, not absolute statistics. A poll here for the sake of a poll is relatively meaningless, as has been pointed out numerous times by the poll police The answer is unknowable.
Because Porsche won't say how many it's happened to.
Because it's impossible on a forum like this to build a sample that represents all Porsche owners.
Because we'd never be able to agree on the control sample (all cars? German cars? Exotic cars? Expensive cars? 300 hp cars?).
And because the past is not necessarily a predictor anyway (many incidences involved low mileage cars early in their service life, and early in the life of the series). For all we know, the probability decreases with time. Almost certainly, the probability isn't static across time and mileage.
Unknowable. And I don't think there are any poll police here. Just some guys that find the subject futile and a buzzkill.
02-14-2007, 12:35 AM
#68
Ironman 140.6
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Originally Posted by joes c4 cab
I think that we can all agree that Porsche has never replaced engines in any other model like they have in the 996/Boxter. Correct? Can we at least agree on that? I think that is indisputable.
As a result, Porsche probably replaces more engines now than in the past.
02-14-2007, 12:46 AM
#69
Originally Posted by LVDell
hey Bruce, you do realize that probability is a statistic? Geez, do we have to have stats101 again?
Does this mean I have to clean those blackboard brushes again?
I am NOT wearing that pointy hat with the D on it this time...
02-14-2007, 01:13 AM
#70
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Originally Posted by Ray S
Unfortunately, that supposition would be somewhat flawed. In the past Porsche sold internal engine parts and dealers would tear down problematic engines to repair if possible. Starting with the Boxster Porsche changed this process. They no loger sell internals and engines are no longer repaired in the field.
As a result, Porsche probably replaces more engines now than in the past.
As a result, Porsche probably replaces more engines now than in the past.
02-14-2007, 01:24 AM
#71
Ironman 140.6
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Originally Posted by itorque
I can attest to this as my motor did not explode, it was just a little "noisy" where it shouldnt be. I pushed it a little with Rusnak Porsche and they agreed. Everything was perfect except it was noisy around the cam chain/intermediate shaft area so they replaced the whole motor. I would bet anything it could have been fixed and I would not be a "new motor" stastic but they chose to repalce rather than repair. I for one am glad they did.
