heelix

All true - but I would let my wife drive my C4 in the winter/rain. (grin)

RAC

I guess this goes right along with saying the 996 diluted a little bit the essence of the Porsche experience from the 993.

Didn't the ALMS outlaw Audi's AWD due to complaining from other racing teams saying it was an unfair advantage? Or was that a different race series?

Ok I need to leave now; this should stir up a nest of hornets. Hehehehehehehe

TD in DC

comparing ALMS to what 99% of us do with our Porsches is, well, an exxageration

I love 996 C4Ss. I think that they are probably the most beautiful of the 996s, even more so than the turbo. I think they make great cars for both road and track. I do not think that they are better for track use than C2s. For track use, I prefer the C2 (at least for normally aspirated cars). Why? Two main reasons. First, unsprung (and sprung) weight. The AWD and turbo brakes of the C4S are not necessary (it has the same engine as the C2), and yet it increases the unsprung weight, which is the worst weight to have. I mean, the whole point of ceramic brakes is to get that weight down. If it is unnecessary, then why have the weight there in the first place. It also increases sprung weight, and it is unnecessary. Second, is the understeer issues. AWD increases the tendendency for the car to understeer, which 996s tend to have anyway. Is it a problem? Not at all. It is a very, very capable car. But, it is not as good as the C2 in the dry. In the wet, maybe it is better. I don't want to buy a car for optimizing the "rare" occurance. If I lived in a different part of the country I might have a different opinion.

In the end, the C2s, C4s, and C4Ss are all far about the capability of probably 98% of their drivers, including me.

Palting

TD, TD, TD, , let's not start this all over again.

I think there was a segment in Top Gear, where, THE STIG, the man with no name who was born wearing a driving suit, who remarkably looks like TD's avatar, drove both the C4S and the C2. He was faster with the C4S by several seconds, but he felt like he drove the C2 faster. I think that pretty much sums up the prevailing sentiments.

Wellardmac

I think in the same segment Jeremy summed up the differences between the C2, C4 and C4S by analogy to women.

The C2 = a perfect handful.
The C4 = well endowed.
The C4S = a full body kit with implants - pretty but doesn't really do much that the others don't do, but it looks really good.



Sadly all three cars were blond.... probably because of the rear engine.

TD in DC

yeah, I later went back and did a lap in the dry and knocked 5 seconds off, I just didn't bother to air it out of respect to you.

I think this requires multiple rounds of drinks to settle . . .

AmirShaikh

I'm an AWD fan.

Security, safety, easy to push it to the limit...any weather condition...bad quality roads.

Much more forgiving...can power your way through pretty much anything at a much higher limit.

Having owned high power FWD, AWD, and RWD cars before the C4...that's my preference.

thanks,
Amir

Adrian

So the Löhner-Porsche, Porsche 953, 959, 961, 964 Carrera 4 RS, 993TT, 996TT and 997TT also dilute the Porsche experience then as well as the normally aspirated C4s?
I agree that the standard tyres used for the 964 Carrera 4 made the responsiveness a tad vague as compared to the Carrera 2, but this was easily corrected and certainly does not apply to the 993 and 996 series.
I will concede on point. I have never driven American versions of the 993 nor 996. With the different suspension, higher weights and higher ride heights there maybe a more noticeable difference between the C4s and Carreras as compared to the ROW/European versions I am used to driving.
Americans who have visited me and driven my cars of over the years have all commented saying they found my C4s steering sharp and precise. This includes blasting around certain special places in France.
Ciao,
Adrian.

JCreasy

AWD causes erectile disfunction. So, if that is not an issue for you, grab one.

Seriously, I read up on these cars before buying one and found the page of a guy who has test drove, inspected and owned hundreds of 911s. (Some sort of expert on the cars). When he got to the 996, he commented that is was a more refined feeling car than the air cooled and a wonderful handler... He also made the same comment about AWD feeling different than RWD and not necessarily better for everyday driving... I think the final comment was that it was a subjective assesment (spelling?), but I sure would like to try one.

JKC

TD in DC

I believe you are right about the tires. As I said before, the C4 and C4S are incredibly able cars that perform well on the street and the track, and will have far more capabilities than 98% of us on this list could ever tap into.

I also excepted for TT and the power delivery issues. But all that aside, on the pavement, what do people race . . . C2s or C4s and C4Ss. You really need to look no further than that to see your answer about what is more ideal from a pure track perspective. What say you?

Adrian

My advice is always to go and drive them yourself and base your comments and opinions on your real life experiences not on those read in magazine articles or on internet forums.
If I found four 996s of the same option and mod status (2 Carreras and 2 Carrera 4s or 3 of one and 1 of the other) took the badges off and taped up the centre panel switches and said drive this one and then that one and so on, very few if any here could genuinely identify which ones were 996 Carreras and which ones were 996 Carrera 4s.
Ciao,
Adrian.

TD in DC

First, you have to admit that that is a bit of an exaggeration, no?

Second, if it were true, then it would just prove that the C4s and C4Ss are a complete waste of money and add absolutely unnecessary weight.

Adrian

My comments were aimed at a general statement made on this forum that the Carrera 4 dilutes the Porshe experience.

In the real world of professional motorsport you are not allowed to race AWD Porsches so the question is irrelevant because there is nothing to compare it against. There is no GT-3 AWD. We have not seen a professionally prepared Carrera 4 racing car since the early 1990s and the French Quattro Team.

At the club level of motorsports many people go out in their Carrera 4s, but if I was club racing competively I would be out there in a GT-3 because it's a race car in road clothing. If Porsche made a racing GT-3 AWD version I would certainly race it, but they don't, so to be competitive I would have to use the GT-3.
I would not contemplate going out racing in either the standard 996 Carrera or 996 Carrera 4, but if I had to choose for the sake of pure theory the Carrera is lighter so I would take that.
Ciao,
Adrian.

Adrian

On point one certainly not; because it was done in Italy with a bunch of well known motoring journalists a few years ago. None of them could honestly tell the difference. It was done again in bad weather conditions and then more got it right.

On point two this coming from a Targa owner with the massive weight of the glass mountain over his head
Seriously in some ways your point is correct depending upon where you live. Where I live in the mountains there comes a time when RWD cars of all types have to go to bed and leave the real work of driving to the FWD and AWDs. Eventually even the FWDs are off the road and just the AWDs are left. I guarantee you could not get your Carrera out of my driveway in winter. If I lived back in my home town in Australia I would not consider owning the Carrera 4. In fact my old 996 GT-2 would make a comeback.
Ciao,
Adrian.

TD in DC

C'mon Adrian. You have to admit that, unless you have massive amounts of HP that you are having difficulty delivering to the ground, that C4 is unnecessary on the track, and perhaps even harmful since it tends to make cars understeer, in dry weather conditions. There is more to it than "Porsche just doesn't make one"

Maybe in Europe it is different, but in the U.S. you don't see very many people at all racing C4s or C4Ss at the club sport level. There is a reason for this.

Again, all of my comments are aimed at track usage. It rubs me the wrong way when I hear people suggest that the C4 is BETTER than the C2 for track usage. I don't buy it. I also don't think that there is anything wrong with using a C4 or C4S on the street and the track. Hell, it might even be better for the street, but that is not the point I personally am debating.