50-100% RMS Failure?
08-16-2006, 03:23 PM
#16
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Originally Posted by jbdmd
no doubt
you could just put a drip pan under the car and top off more freuqently but damn! Is this the best that Porsche can do?
RMS leaks are from a design flaw which has, as yet, not been addressed rather patched by Porsche! A design flaw which is quite wide spread.
Imagine if Porsche advertised..."Porsche there is no substitute and oh by the way 50% of you will have oil leaking on your garage floor" The cars would not sell at all!!! and then they would fix the problem for real!
you could just put a drip pan under the car and top off more freuqently but damn! Is this the best that Porsche can do?
RMS leaks are from a design flaw which has, as yet, not been addressed rather patched by Porsche! A design flaw which is quite wide spread.
Imagine if Porsche advertised..."Porsche there is no substitute and oh by the way 50% of you will have oil leaking on your garage floor" The cars would not sell at all!!! and then they would fix the problem for real!
However, do you think there are many car manufacturers out there that would recall all cars because there was a chance that there would be an oil leak from a seal at some point in it's life...?
Just playing devils advocate...
Chris.
08-16-2006, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris 996
At 59,103Miles The clutch 1 996-116-911-02 repair kit $575, they Flywheel Assembly 999-073-0920-02 $850.00, and the OIL SEAL 999-113-490-40 was replaced.
Now at 74,500 miles, the rms is leaking again. That is only 15k Miles.
Is this the latest oil seal fix? OIL SEAL 999-113-490-40 or is there an improved one out there? Work was done August 30 Year 2004.
Now at 74,500 miles, the rms is leaking again. That is only 15k Miles.
Is this the latest oil seal fix? OIL SEAL 999-113-490-40 or is there an improved one out there? Work was done August 30 Year 2004.
2 year warranty on the one I just had done
Call your dealer and get it into the shop before Aug 30
08-16-2006, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris 996
At 59,103Miles The clutch 1 996-116-911-02 repair kit $575, they Flywheel Assembly 999-073-0920-02 $850.00, and the OIL SEAL 999-113-490-40 was replaced.
Now at 74,500 miles, the rms is leaking again. That is only 15k Miles.
Is this the latest oil seal fix? OIL SEAL 999-113-490-40 or is there an improved one out there? Work was done August 30 Year 2004.
Now at 74,500 miles, the rms is leaking again. That is only 15k Miles.
Is this the latest oil seal fix? OIL SEAL 999-113-490-40 or is there an improved one out there? Work was done August 30 Year 2004.
Clutch work done - RMS replaced at the same time
Main shaft is not trued-up, and takes about 10-12k miles to wear the seal to the point you see the RMS leak.
This is almost always due to the tech not paying enough attention to the centering of that shaft - and any aligment issue is compounded as the shaft is only supported at one end, leaving the other end to float free and osciallate, damaging the RMS over time. (This is the real design issue with Porsche)
You should get a 2 Yr warranty from the dealer for any RMS replacement - so you may be covered still?
Your 04 seal is not the 'latest' from Porsche - I understand that version 3 came out at the end of 05 I think....
Chris.
Last edited by cdodkin; 08-16-2006 at 07:01 PM.
08-16-2006, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris 996
Yes the dealer did the work. I just called them. Taking it in on Tuesday.
Chris.
08-16-2006, 03:55 PM
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Great DIY RMS replacement article HERE
Shows what's involved, what the problems are - give everyone here a decent perspective on what RMS is really all about.
Interesting to note that the article states - I did not replace my Clutch and Flywheel as they were replaced a few months earlier by the previous owner
It's a good bet that the RMS failure was at least helped if not caused by the previous clutch work on this car.
Chris.
Shows what's involved, what the problems are - give everyone here a decent perspective on what RMS is really all about.
Interesting to note that the article states - I did not replace my Clutch and Flywheel as they were replaced a few months earlier by the previous owner
It's a good bet that the RMS failure was at least helped if not caused by the previous clutch work on this car.
Chris.
08-16-2006, 04:36 PM
#22
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Originally Posted by cdodkin
This seems to be a common issue.....
...and any aligment issue is compounded as the shaft is only supported at one end, leaving the other end to float free and osciallate, damaging the RMS over time. (This is the real design issue with Porsche)
...and any aligment issue is compounded as the shaft is only supported at one end, leaving the other end to float free and osciallate, damaging the RMS over time. (This is the real design issue with Porsche)
Exactly my point. Maybe they can design a retrofit craddle/support to hold that weight hanging out there in space.
bottom line is that it is a deign flaw and a known one. this is not a ford mustang. this is a porsche the top end of the daily driver sports car food chain.
porsche can and should do better
08-16-2006, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by jbdmd
...bottom line is that it is a deign flaw and a known one. this is not a ford mustang. this is a porsche the top end of the daily driver sports car food chain.
porsche can and should do better
porsche can and should do better
Before I got mine, I did much research here and elsewhere on the RMS issue,
as that was the first thing that friends warned me of when they hear "Porsche".
I just couldn't believe Porsche still, to this day has not solved this problem and is still producing cars with RMS issues!? I would expect more from such a reputable name.
Well...so far...I repeat, "so far"... my garage floor has been clean since the C4S has taken over that spot. It's been good for 4 weeks, and counting.
08-16-2006, 06:37 PM
#24
Originally Posted by cdodkin
This is almost always due to the tech not paying enough attention to the centering of that shaft - and any aligment issue is compounded as the shaft is only supported at one end, leaving the other end to float free and osciallate, damaging the RMS over time. (This is the real design issue with Porsche)
]
]
CENTERING WHAT? THE INTERMEDIAT SHAFT BEARING SUPPORT THERE IS ITS A ROUND PART IN A ROUND HOLE. UNLESS YOUR DAMAGING THE SEAL ON INSTALL THEN THERES NOT REALLY ANYTHING TO CENTER. AS FAR AS IT DANGLING IN SPACE THE INTERMEDADE SHAFT IT SUPPORTED ON THE OTHER END AND HAS NO EFFECT ON THE RMS SEAL.
THE RMS IS ON THE CRANK COMPLETLY DIFFRENT THEN THE INTERMEDIATE SHAFT. HOW MANY UPDATED SEALS HAVE THERE BEEN AND BULLETIONS ABOUT OIL LEAKS, THE CASE BOLTS, ECT.
THE NEW 997 SEAL HAS BEEN VERY SUCESSFUL. I HIGHLY RECOMEN HAVING IT INSTALLED THE NEXT TIME YOUR TRANSMISION IS OUT FOR CLUTCH REPLACEMENT (UNLESS YOUR IN WARRENTY IF YOU ARE TAKE IT IN NOW FOR THAT OIL LEAK) TILL THEN KEEP A DRIP PAN UNDER THE CAR
08-16-2006, 07:00 PM
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The fact that the shaft is only suported at one end, and has no bearing to support it at the RMS, leads to the issue.
Suggest you read the excellent post on RMS replacement HERE
Any shaft misalignment can cause the RMS seal to become worn over the next 10-12k miles, and lead to oil leaks.
Intermeadiate Main Seals also fail, as here:
This gives the same symptoms form the outside, and you really cannot tell until you're in there which seal has gone.
Intermeadiate shaft is under tension, and requires centering before seal is attached.
Chris.
Suggest you read the excellent post on RMS replacement HERE
Any shaft misalignment can cause the RMS seal to become worn over the next 10-12k miles, and lead to oil leaks.
Intermeadiate Main Seals also fail, as here:
This gives the same symptoms form the outside, and you really cannot tell until you're in there which seal has gone.
Intermeadiate shaft is under tension, and requires centering before seal is attached.
Chris.
08-16-2006, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by cdodkin
The fact that the shaft is only suported at one end, and has no bearing to support it at the RMS, leads to the issue.
Suggest you read the excellent post on RMS replacement HERE
Any shaft misalignment can cause the RMS seal to become worn over the next 10-12k miles, and lead to oil leaks.
Intermeadiate Main Seals also fail, as here:
This gives the same symptoms form the outside, and you really cannot tell until you're in there which seal has gone.
Intermeadiate shaft is under tension, and requires centering before seal is attached.
Chris.
Suggest you read the excellent post on RMS replacement HERE
Any shaft misalignment can cause the RMS seal to become worn over the next 10-12k miles, and lead to oil leaks.
Intermeadiate Main Seals also fail, as here:
This gives the same symptoms form the outside, and you really cannot tell until you're in there which seal has gone.
Intermeadiate shaft is under tension, and requires centering before seal is attached.
Chris.
that was amazing!
and i am afraid to change the oil!!
08-16-2006, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by jbdmd
wow!
that was amazing!
and i am afraid to change the oil!!
that was amazing!
and i am afraid to change the oil!!
08-16-2006, 10:02 PM
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Just had my third one done. One at 15K with the CPO (but i wonder if it was actually done), one in the 35K range, and one last week at the 60K. Also put in a new clutch. WHAT A DIFFERENCE!!!
08-16-2006, 10:04 PM
#29
ok now i see where your going with that the crank shaft misaligmnet not the intermediate shaft ill agree with you on the lack of a bearing being a contributing factor,.
As far as techs not centering still theres nothing to center when replacing the rms as long as you are using the proper tool. (crank cradle install is where alignment becomes an issue)
Intermediate shafts are the same seal you cannot install one not centered you can damage the seals on instalation but once its in and bolted thats that.
Im very framiler with the rms replacment and inter shaft seal replacment ive changed a few..........
btw i read the rms article, thats really really really scary how they changed the ims seal, they were on blind luck on that one not bending valves.
As far as techs not centering still theres nothing to center when replacing the rms as long as you are using the proper tool. (crank cradle install is where alignment becomes an issue)
Intermediate shafts are the same seal you cannot install one not centered you can damage the seals on instalation but once its in and bolted thats that.
Im very framiler with the rms replacment and inter shaft seal replacment ive changed a few..........
btw i read the rms article, thats really really really scary how they changed the ims seal, they were on blind luck on that one not bending valves.
08-16-2006, 11:00 PM
#30
May not be RMS. No RMS failure here, but it was in 3 times for an oil leak. IMS all 3 times. First time just seals. Second time seals, outer housing and new shaft. Third time shaft housing, new guides and seals. It is finally fixed. The entire problem was actually caused by the bad guide.
Normally the replace the RMS and IMS seals at the same time. If the RMS leaks after the new seals, they check if the crank is out of round. If it is and the car is under warranty, they warranty a new engine. Out of warranty, SOL.
Normally the replace the RMS and IMS seals at the same time. If the RMS leaks after the new seals, they check if the crank is out of round. If it is and the car is under warranty, they warranty a new engine. Out of warranty, SOL.