I'm running 15w50 and...............
08-20-2006, 10:56 AM
#47
Drifting
[QUOTE=Doug Hillary]Hi,
5 - GSIRM3 - there are very sound reasons why the valve train is affected by oil viscosity. INA-Schaeffer and other valve train component makers have researched this issue at great length
I could cover this and other viscosity related issues in some depth but it would be boring for many
I understand how some parts of the valve train could be impacted by oil viscosity changes, but the post I was referring to mentioned the valves would be effected. I don't see how the valves themselves would be effected.
5 - GSIRM3 - there are very sound reasons why the valve train is affected by oil viscosity. INA-Schaeffer and other valve train component makers have researched this issue at great length
I could cover this and other viscosity related issues in some depth but it would be boring for many
I understand how some parts of the valve train could be impacted by oil viscosity changes, but the post I was referring to mentioned the valves would be effected. I don't see how the valves themselves would be effected.
08-20-2006, 11:03 AM
#48
Race Car
[QUOTE=GSIRM3]
Too thin an oil can lead to excessive bleed down in the lifters. This can cause looseness, causing the lifter to move up and down while not centered. Having an unprimed lifter can also lead to poor idle since valve are not opening and closing properly. Priming of a lifter is not a few second process.
Originally Posted by Doug Hillary
Hi,
5 - GSIRM3 - there are very sound reasons why the valve train is affected by oil viscosity. INA-Schaeffer and other valve train component makers have researched this issue at great length
I could cover this and other viscosity related issues in some depth but it would be boring for many
I understand how some parts of the valve train could be impacted by oil viscosity changes, but the post I was referring to mentioned the valves would be effected. I don't see how the valves themselves would be effected.
5 - GSIRM3 - there are very sound reasons why the valve train is affected by oil viscosity. INA-Schaeffer and other valve train component makers have researched this issue at great length
I could cover this and other viscosity related issues in some depth but it would be boring for many
I understand how some parts of the valve train could be impacted by oil viscosity changes, but the post I was referring to mentioned the valves would be effected. I don't see how the valves themselves would be effected.
Too thin an oil can lead to excessive bleed down in the lifters. This can cause looseness, causing the lifter to move up and down while not centered. Having an unprimed lifter can also lead to poor idle since valve are not opening and closing properly. Priming of a lifter is not a few second process.
08-20-2006, 11:23 AM
#51
Super Moderator
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Originally Posted by Doug Hillary
... It was initially a full ester based lubricant with the characteristic "caster bean" odour like Castrol R30 and etc! I used it for many years in a wide variety of engine types - flat, vertical, horizontal vee, aircooled, water cooled, diesel and petrol
Brings back fond memories......
Now his 125cc water cooled runs on only synthetic.
Thanks for all the oil info.
08-20-2006, 12:19 PM
#52
Rennlist Member
itc,
I raced MX in the 70's and used castor bean oil. It did have it's own unique aroma. And for those of you that complain about stock shocks you should have experienced the Girling MX shocks of the 70's.
As to this threads content I have Redline 5-40 in my car.
I raced MX in the 70's and used castor bean oil. It did have it's own unique aroma. And for those of you that complain about stock shocks you should have experienced the Girling MX shocks of the 70's.
As to this threads content I have Redline 5-40 in my car.
08-20-2006, 01:03 PM
#53
As Doug said Mobil 5w40 Delvac may be an excellent option in warmer climates. However it is significantly thicker than 0w40 at 0°C, 601 VS 1066 cSt. Delvac 1 is exactly the same as the old discontinued "Truck and SUV" Mobil 1. For marketing reasons they changed the name to "Turbodiesel Truck". Its available here in Texas at O'Reilleys auto parts for $5.59. Beware that Mobil now sells "Truck and SUV" as a 5w30 oil that is not a high performance oil. Comparing 0w40 VS 5w40 Mobil 1 the 5w40 is significantly thicker at low temperatures, has more antiwear additives, and less viscosity index improvers. The 5w40 looks like an excellent summer or track oil.
Here's a viscosity chart I found, it's a couple of years old.
Here's a viscosity chart I found, it's a couple of years old.
Last edited by ebaker; 08-20-2006 at 09:38 PM.
08-20-2006, 01:17 PM
#54
08-20-2006, 09:13 PM
#55
Burning Brakes
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Hello,
LVDell - Either the 0w-40 or 5w-40 viscosity of a Brand that is Porsche Approved and Listed will be OK
I prefer an oil with a High Temperature High Shear (HTHS) viscosity above that specified as Porsche's minimum (3.5cSt). M1 0w-40 has 3.6cSt and Delvac 1 5w-40 is 4.1cSt. This is measured at 150C. Mr Baker's suggestion is wise if longer events are your lot!
Itc - thank you for publishing the "List". I have difficulty in doing such things!
GSIRM3 - the valves may suffer a secondary impact via other elements within the valve train - this is not too common
1999Porsche911 - your description misses some of the facts. A better understanding of viscosity, pressure and flow, and the impact of various forces on/within a modern valve train may help. A lubricant that is too viscous is much less desirable than one of the correct viscosity in the operation of valve train components
An SAE40 oil (0w-40, 5w-40) is not a "thin" oil by any standards.
For instance in MY1941, the oil recommendations for American engines were the monogrades SAE10, SAE20w, SAE20 and SAE30! Some engines required SAE40 above an ambient of 90F!!
The most common grades today are "multigrades" with miximums of SAE20, SAE30 and in Europe, SAE40! SAE50 is often called a "thick" oil
The first 20w-50 multigrade oil was especially produced in 1958/9 for the BMC Mini - which had an integrated engine/gearbox and lubrication "difficulties"!
10w-30 multigrade oils were introduced several years earlier
In modern (and most) engines it is desirable for the lubricant's viscosity to change as little as possible from say -10C to 50C. This is why a 0w-40 lubricant appears so "thin" at ambient - it may appear to be only a little different at 100C - this is what is needed! That is by design!!
The higher the Viscosity Index number the better. Note from Mr Baker's post #53 that M1 0w-40 has the highest number (187), of the oils in the prescribed 0w-40/5w-40 range!
The CAFÉ requirements in NA are the prime reason why 0w-20, 5w-20, 0w-30 oils are used as factory fill by most car engine manufacturers there. No excessive wear problems have been encountered when the thinnest of these oils have been used in suitable engines as mandated
These viscosities are totally unsuitable for use in Porsche engines!
Mr Baker - thanks for contributing your expertise, and thanks Russ for your comments
LVDell - Either the 0w-40 or 5w-40 viscosity of a Brand that is Porsche Approved and Listed will be OK
I prefer an oil with a High Temperature High Shear (HTHS) viscosity above that specified as Porsche's minimum (3.5cSt). M1 0w-40 has 3.6cSt and Delvac 1 5w-40 is 4.1cSt. This is measured at 150C. Mr Baker's suggestion is wise if longer events are your lot!
Itc - thank you for publishing the "List". I have difficulty in doing such things!
GSIRM3 - the valves may suffer a secondary impact via other elements within the valve train - this is not too common
1999Porsche911 - your description misses some of the facts. A better understanding of viscosity, pressure and flow, and the impact of various forces on/within a modern valve train may help. A lubricant that is too viscous is much less desirable than one of the correct viscosity in the operation of valve train components
An SAE40 oil (0w-40, 5w-40) is not a "thin" oil by any standards.
For instance in MY1941, the oil recommendations for American engines were the monogrades SAE10, SAE20w, SAE20 and SAE30! Some engines required SAE40 above an ambient of 90F!!
The most common grades today are "multigrades" with miximums of SAE20, SAE30 and in Europe, SAE40! SAE50 is often called a "thick" oil
The first 20w-50 multigrade oil was especially produced in 1958/9 for the BMC Mini - which had an integrated engine/gearbox and lubrication "difficulties"!
10w-30 multigrade oils were introduced several years earlier
In modern (and most) engines it is desirable for the lubricant's viscosity to change as little as possible from say -10C to 50C. This is why a 0w-40 lubricant appears so "thin" at ambient - it may appear to be only a little different at 100C - this is what is needed! That is by design!!
The higher the Viscosity Index number the better. Note from Mr Baker's post #53 that M1 0w-40 has the highest number (187), of the oils in the prescribed 0w-40/5w-40 range!
The CAFÉ requirements in NA are the prime reason why 0w-20, 5w-20, 0w-30 oils are used as factory fill by most car engine manufacturers there. No excessive wear problems have been encountered when the thinnest of these oils have been used in suitable engines as mandated
These viscosities are totally unsuitable for use in Porsche engines!
Mr Baker - thanks for contributing your expertise, and thanks Russ for your comments
08-21-2006, 12:16 AM
#58
Three Wheelin'
Here are the specs for Mobil 1 5W50
http://www.imperialoil.ca/Canada-Eng...il_1_5W-50.pdf
and here are specs for Mobil 1 "DELVAC"
http://www.imperialoil.ca/Canada-Eng...1_Delvac_1.pdf
http://www.imperialoil.ca/Canada-Eng...il_1_5W-50.pdf
and here are specs for Mobil 1 "DELVAC"
http://www.imperialoil.ca/Canada-Eng...1_Delvac_1.pdf
08-21-2006, 12:45 AM
#59
Burning Brakes
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Hi,
c70Pete - thank you - pleased to see that you are interested
The Spec sheet for 5w-50 is probably the lastest as it is at the API's "SM" (the latest) quality rating
The Spec sheet for Delvac 1 5w-40 is three formulations old (shown as CH-4/SJ - now CI-4+/SL, was CI-4/SL) The major formulation/performance changes are quite significant.
The Pour Point is now -45C, the cSt at 40C is now 102 and at 100C now 14.8. Its TBN is now 12
Its HTHS viscosity is still at 4.1cSt
Sometimes formulations vary from country to country. Most M1 and Delvac products sold in OZ are sourced from the USA
Thanks again Pete
Doug
c70Pete - thank you - pleased to see that you are interested
The Spec sheet for 5w-50 is probably the lastest as it is at the API's "SM" (the latest) quality rating
The Spec sheet for Delvac 1 5w-40 is three formulations old (shown as CH-4/SJ - now CI-4+/SL, was CI-4/SL) The major formulation/performance changes are quite significant.
The Pour Point is now -45C, the cSt at 40C is now 102 and at 100C now 14.8. Its TBN is now 12
Its HTHS viscosity is still at 4.1cSt
Sometimes formulations vary from country to country. Most M1 and Delvac products sold in OZ are sourced from the USA
Thanks again Pete
Doug
08-21-2006, 12:54 AM
#60
Three Wheelin'
my pleasure Doug... I'm glad to see we can bring some deep insight into the different Mobil 1 oils....
interesting to see how the 0w40 has a higher viscocity index than either the Delvac and 5W50.... I'm currently using 5W50 but I think that is overkill since I don't track the car much... I'll be switching back to 0W40 on my next change... the car does rev a bit faster with 0W40... I don't think you can make a bad choice with any of these oils as long as you keep regional conditions in mind... and that being said even 5W50 and Delvac will perform in winters as low as -25 Celcius...
interesting to see how the 0w40 has a higher viscocity index than either the Delvac and 5W50.... I'm currently using 5W50 but I think that is overkill since I don't track the car much... I'll be switching back to 0W40 on my next change... the car does rev a bit faster with 0W40... I don't think you can make a bad choice with any of these oils as long as you keep regional conditions in mind... and that being said even 5W50 and Delvac will perform in winters as low as -25 Celcius...