MichaelN

Hi all, I'm looking for some input. I have a 2001 C4 with about 12k miles on it that suddenly developed some moderate shaking under heavy braking. I've owned the car 18+ months. The friendly dealer service guy told me that he would love to change the rotors for $700 +/- since Porsche considers these regular wear items and won't cover them beyond 60 months/12k miles. Pads, I can see, but rotors? Oh yes, and my oil leak is "not major", so nothing will be done. Yes, I drive spiritedly, but isn't this $78k German sports car engineered for that?

I've never had such problems with a car dealer before. Does anyone know of a customer service-oriented service department in New England (anywhere)? Or, is it that my expectations are out of line? Straight-shot comments appreciated. Michael

Ed Newman

I have to defend PCNA here a little, things like rotors are so hard to judge warranty on. From excessive use (i.e. track) to spirited driving followed by a car wash can lead to things like warped and cracked rotors. How much meat is left on them? I replaced the front rotors in my Boxtser (below specs) at 15k. If they prorated them would you get more than a $100? Maybe work on the dealer to just charge you cost on the parts.

MichaelN

Ed, the brakes have not had a easy life, but I wouldn't say that they've been abused. I'm careful to ease into them before threshold braking, and give them some time to cool between applications. However, I did run in the rain not too long before I noticed the problem, so perhaps this might have contributed. Regarding how much meat is left, I don't know (they've seen two sets of pads and have no major scoring, but I haven't measured the thickness--any guidelines?) Thanks for the suggestion with the dealer, I'll give it a whirl.

wilam

Where is your oil leak coming from? I had main seal leaks and others in my 01 c2cab. I ended up getting a new engine becasue the engine block was uneven and could not hold a proper seal!

I think any leak is abnormal.

Ed Newman

Personally, if it were me and I was on my third set of pads, I would be expecting a replacement to be very near and at my cost. I'd look to work with the dealer and establish a good repoor. If they do the work let them know that you will be in alot as you do drive the car an that they will be benefiting from more work due to this. Maybe they can cut you a break on the parts or labor. If you do the work yourself, get friendly with the parts manager and work on a discount with him or her. 3 sets of pads to 1 set of rotors is reasonable based on my experience in the past on both my boxtser and other cars.

Ed Newman

BTW, I have to assume there is not much meat left on them otherwise the dealer would simply cut them and move on... done deal.

Jack

[quote]Originally posted by Ed Newman:
<strong>BTW, I have to assume there is not much meat left on them otherwise the dealer would simply cut them and move on... done deal.</strong><hr></blockquote>

FWIW, I've been told by the "so called" experts that it's not recommended that cross drilled rotors be turned/cut.

RWO

If you havn't had any other service issues on the brakes due to heavy use I would push it. If you are tracking the car I can see that problem developing, not from street use.

I have not had that problem with my P cars. I cracked the rotors on my Viper (track use) and they were replaced free. I warped rotors on my Z cars (Nissan) and they tried the normal story. After I asked for the number for Nissan NA the dealer fixed both under warranty (one at 6k the other at 12k).

Good luck.
Roy

Skytop

Porsche dealer not replacing defective rotors is TOTAL BULLSH*T

My BMW dealer replaced the rotors many times on the M3 and M5 cars I had. If BMW can do it, PORSCHE DAMN better do it!!!!!!

FixedWing

Few points:

1) Most "warped rotors" aren't warped rotors at all. The pad overheats and you get transfer to the rotor. The unevenness of the grabbing of the pads on the rotor produces a thumping that is often called warped rotors. Sometimes this can be fixed. Sometimes not. Depends on how bad it has got.

2) If this is the reason then you are being too hard on your pads and need to consider something more robust.

3) Rotors are relatively cheap. Not worth trying to turn them. They act as heat sinks and turning them necessarily reduces this.

4) Whether the rotor is a consumable or should last for the warranty period is an interesting question. Turn it on its head and ask for proof that they told you this is a consumable item when you bought the car. A reasonable argument would be that the pads are the consumable item and not the rotors. Using their logic you could argue that the entire car is consumable since it has been engineered for a finite life expectancy.

I think if you fight them hard enough you'll get it but how hard will you need to fight?

S.

A4EP

BMW is a different warranty. As of 2000 they changed the warranty from not including "wear and tear items" to including them to compete against Audi. Now BMW will replace everything, even the winshield wipers under warranty. Rotors, unfortunatly, are a "wear and tear" item.

Read the fine print, is it fair, no but it is true.

A4EP

MichaelN

[quote]Where is your oil leak coming from? I had main seal leaks and others in my 01 c2cab.<hr></blockquote>
I'm embarrased to say that I haven't had it up on a lift to figure this out, but from poking around while changing tires, it looks like the main seal--but I'm not sure.

[quote]Personally, if it were me and I was on my third set of pads, I would be expecting a replacement to be very near and at my cost.<hr></blockquote>
I'm on set number 2, but I guess I have re-calibrated my expectations. In agreement with Sky, Roy, Fixed and A4EP posts, I am still bothered that Porsche doesn't take care of this like other marques but need to suck it up.

Regarding other input on causes and remedies, I am reasonably sure that the cause is not deposits and I too have been told not to turn the rotors.

Anyone have a recommendation on aftermarket rotor/pad combos? I don't want to upgrade the whole braking system, just replace rotors with similar or more robust parts.

M758

Dude,
If you went through 2 sets of pads then you will probably need a set of rotors. It is common to have 2 to 1 ratio. It seems to me that you are quite hard on your brakes. At 12k miles going through two sets of pad is alot. Too much for normal street use. This is more indictitave of track duty.

Also pad AND rotors are wear items. They are designed to wear and like I said two sets of pads to one rotor are common for nearly ALL car applications Not just Porsches. You cannot expect wear items such as these to be covered. Especially since they are wearing at a rate matching the pads.

Seems to me that you should pay for the rotors and pads unless you can show that there is some sort of problem elsewhere in the car that is causing excessive wear.

StephenB

Michael,

BMW does not cover rotors under warranty. Both front and rear rotors were worn significantly below the minimum allowable thickness with less than 30k on the car this summer. I thought this was unusual with such low mileage! I used Performance Friction pads on my previous 911 and liked them. They were rotor friendly and provided very good bite. However, they were not available in a street compound for my 996 when I changed the pads in July.

GRUENE

I just changed my front pads after 36K miles (2000 C2, 3 DE's so far). No rotor wear to speak of. If you're on your 3rd set of pads at 12K miles, sounds like you're having a LOT more fun than I am!
I'd expect the rotors to need replacement after that...