Yeah well I have five kids! They love riding in the pcar. Most track events are during the week and I can't/ wont take the time off because my time off from work would be to go on vacation. Weekends are for family! I would really LIKE to ggo to the track buti can't see myself taking the time away! Although I am cinsidering the TrackQuest in May at Watkins Glen!!!!

 

I autocross my 996, but didn't wish to risk it on the track. So like others here, I scraped together the money for a track car (which is still street licensed). In that car I have harnesses, seats, rollbar, (cage someday) and all the suspension mods necessary to really do things properly. A cage, or rollbar really isn't a good idea in a street car, nor are track pads and frankly, my 911's ride on the street is nearly unbearable. As good as Porsche street cars are, every car made has a certain set of compromises it makes given its primary objective. Frankly, for as much as I use it now, I'd sell the 996, but I love it too much to part with it.
<img src="http://mysite.verizon.net/vze1ktsj/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/rsatrr_32103_4web.jpg" alt=" - " />

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by RJay:
<strong>A cage, or rollbar really isn't a good idea in a street car, nor are track pads and frankly, my 911's ride on the street is nearly unbearable.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Why not?

Based upon the picture, it looks like you merely have driver back roll bar rather than a full cage. Why do you think that driver back bars aren't a good idea in a street driven car?

Track pads are fine on the street in 996s, if you can stand the SQUEEEEEEEEEL.

 

Guys, one funny thing about Porsches is that you can just drive one to the track, run around until you're too tired to turn the wheel, then drive back home and next day drive to work/school/whatever like nothing happened.

Or, at least it seems to be that way with these old 944s me & my friends have. I'd imagine a 996 or any new Porsche would be just as reliable, only faster

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Pete:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by RJay:
<strong>A cage, or rollbar really isn't a good idea in a street car, nor are track pads and frankly, my 911's ride on the street is nearly unbearable.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Why not?

Based upon the picture, it looks like you merely have driver back roll bar rather than a full cage. Why do you think that driver back bars aren't a good idea in a street driven car?

Track pads are fine on the street in 996s, if you can stand the SQUEEEEEEEEEL.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">As its been explained to me, if you're in an accident in a car with a roll bar (or cage for that matter) you stand a good chance of cracking your skull open on it even with belts on. I've seen crash dummy video of belt testing which demonstrates this effect. Belts don't really stop you from flying around in a crash, they give to a surprising extent, enough that you hopefully don't damage too much of yer innards, but not enough that you contact anything hard as your moving forward. But on the return trip back into the seat you are free floating and you can ride up and contact the bar with your head. I'm sure there are a ton of factors here, from what type of belting system, how tightly you're locked in, the type of seat, your height and weight as well as the the nature of the accident. Padding apparently doesn't afford sufficient relief in these cases, or so I've been told. What you need is a helmet, which of course, we don't tend to wear on the street. Obviously, as you've spotted, I've ignore this advice, but I only have the car licensed to be able to drive rather than trailer to my tech and nearby autocrosses, so I'm willing to risk it, which of course, still doesn't make it a good idea.

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by RJay:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Pete:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by RJay:
<strong>A cage, or rollbar really isn't a good idea in a street car, nor are track pads and frankly, my 911's ride on the street is nearly unbearable.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Why not?

Based upon the picture, it looks like you merely have driver back roll bar rather than a full cage. Why do you think that driver back bars aren't a good idea in a street driven car?

Track pads are fine on the street in 996s, if you can stand the SQUEEEEEEEEEL.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">As its been explained to me, if you're in an accident in a car with a roll bar (or cage for that matter) you stand a good chance of cracking your skull open on it even with belts on. I've seen crash dummy video of belt testing which demonstrates this effect. Belts don't really stop you from flying around in a crash, they give to a surprising extent, enough that you hopefully don't damage too much of yer innards, but not enough that you contact anything hard as your moving forward. But on the return trip back into the seat you are free floating and you can ride up and contact the bar with your head. I'm sure there are a ton of factors here, from what type of belting system, how tightly you're locked in, the type of seat, your height and weight as well as the the nature of the accident. Padding apparently doesn't afford sufficient relief in these cases, or so I've been told. What you need is a helmet, which of course, we don't tend to wear on the street. Obviously, as you've spotted, I've ignore this advice, but I only have the car licensed to be able to drive rather than trailer to my tech and nearby autocrosses, so I'm willing to risk it, which of course, still doesn't make it a good idea.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">It would pretty much impossible for me to hit my rollbar unless one seat or the other were to be forcibly dislodged during an accident.

There simply isn't enough room, hence my question about your rationale.

<img src="http://home.pacbell.net/psf0/GT3seat.jpg" alt=" - " />

 

Pete-just went to the NASA HPDE at Thunderhill yesterday and I was surprized it was not as disorganized or rough as people say. What's amzing to me is there are so many cars(parking lot packed upon belief) and still run every group including races/qualifying almost on schedule. the last track session was delayed by about 12-13 minutes but they rewarded out group an extra 10 minutes of track time over the 20 minute track session. Yeah definitely between sessions there is waiting time but man such a spectacle of different cars and races to watch like the Porsche Racing Club/Track spec BMW E30/36/46/mini and M variants class/and kit race cars(man-there's these little cars that look like mini- PT Cruiser muscle cars-wow they are freaking fast all going hell on fire)etc. Got a migraine listening to all those high powered race cars. There's another event with NASA at Sear's Point May 25th but since I never done Sear's Point I be in Group One with instructor(hope I graduate fast). Track is way awesome!!! Regards. Mike

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by 996FLT6:
<strong>kit race cars(man-there's these little cars that look like mini- PT Cruiser muscle cars-wow they are freaking fast all going hell on fire)etc. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Sounds like a good time.

My kids were with me at Sears when I did the NASA event and they kept asking me when the clowns were going to get out of those little midget cars.

 

Yep Pete-I was in shear awe watching them(mini-ptcruisers) going blasting thru the straight from turn 15 to 1 and manage to not kill each other as they head to the next turn-saw as many as 10 at one time seemingly making thru the turn at one time without incident. Haven't brought my kid to an event yet but she'll probably say the same thing as you : ). Regards. Mike

 

Pete - It appears from your photo that your seatbelt connects to the receptacle over the top of the GT3 seat instead of through the guide hole by your right hip. Is that how it's supposed to work. Is it possible to mount the receptacle lower you you can use the guide hole with the standard belt?

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by GrantG:
<strong>Pete - It appears from your photo that your seatbelt connects to the receptacle over the top of the GT3 seat instead of through the guide hole by your right hip. Is that how it's supposed to work. Is it possible to mount the receptacle lower you you can use the guide hole with the standard belt?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I don't know.

Perhaps they make a shorter receptacle but for the street it works fine for me.

I was going to investigate it afetr I did the install but have been too lazy and frankly it works fine for me in that configuration.

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Pete:
It would pretty much impossible for me to hit my rollbar unless one seat or the other were to be forcibly dislodged during an accident.

There simply isn't enough room, hence my question about your rationale.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Assuming there's no deformation of the seat and/or the bar in a shunt. When you watch the videos (these were supplied by Schroth) you see all sorts of stuff flexing substantially in a crash. Looking at your install, which is darn clean, perhaps it isn't a problem. Mine (which was done before I got the car) is nowhere near as tight to roof as yours. Again, this isn't my theory so I can neither prove or disprove it, I'm just repeating the wisdom (or lack thereof) of others. I've also been told that is pretty dangerous not to have a seat back brace if you have a cross bar directly behind the seat. A friend of a friend was killed when his seat submarined under the cross brace which broke his neck (track rear end accident contacting a wall).
Again heresay, I suppose, but after I heard this I installed one. Jeez Pete, this is starting to depress me, lets think happier thoughts! Cheers! <img border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" title="" src="graemlins/drink.gif" />

 

I have been told the same thing as RJay, and I believe that SCCA now requires that seat backs be braced against the roll bar or cage. The risk is the seat back (or the seat rails) fracturing from rear-directed force, at which point there would be nothing between the driver/passenger and the roll bar/cage.