C2 vs S4 vs M3
04-21-2006, 01:38 PM
#16
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by kc996
If you're considering buying one, drive them all. You can mod any one of these to make it faster on a straight. Mod the C2 to make it handle better than the M3 on the track and visversa(sp?).
Think about what you want to do and go from there but drive all. If all it's about is 0-60 and fast on the track get a 2002 Z06 and your faster that all with less $$.
But for me I'll stick w/ my 996. But I can't stop modding!!
k
Think about what you want to do and go from there but drive all. If all it's about is 0-60 and fast on the track get a 2002 Z06 and your faster that all with less $$.
But for me I'll stick w/ my 996. But I can't stop modding!!
k
04-22-2006, 12:10 AM
#17
Originally Posted by c70Pete
www.track-challenge.com
you can compare cars (even 3.4 996 & 3.6 996) to eachother in terms of acceleration, track times around the "ring" and "hockenheim"
the c2 and m3 will both take out an S4 no problem... in any acceleration test.
you can compare cars (even 3.4 996 & 3.6 996) to eachother in terms of acceleration, track times around the "ring" and "hockenheim"
the c2 and m3 will both take out an S4 no problem... in any acceleration test.
Back in 2004, I drove 3 of the cars in question on the same day: a 2003 Z06, a 2002 M3 on 18" wheels and a 2004 40th An Carrera. This was the 2nd time I had driver a Z06. The first Z06 I drove earlier ran like a bat out of hell wanted to tear the tires off in 2nd gear. I had to drive a used one because the Chevy dealers will simply not let you drive thier precious Corvettes new. So they take you over to the used car lot instead. This particular MY Z06 already had dozens of cracks in the seats, a multitude of squeeks and rattles and a hood that would shake in the center at the cowl. It drifted badly from side to side on the highway, as did the first Z06 I drove. It was very much a disappointment, especially for a car less than a year old. It could be that this was just a badly abused car or that GM's build quality is just that bad. I will never know since I have never driven a new one and now driven 3 Z06s used with the same disappointing results. With this type of sales tactics, it is no wonder why GM is going under. Bottom line GM, 3 strikes and your out.
I drove the 40th An Carrera next. I wasn't really looking to buy it, I just just looking at used Carreras. They had one with less than 2K miles on it and the salesman just suggested I drive it. I couldn't afford it at that time, but I simply could not refuse. I drove it for about 40 minutes around the Turtle Creek area of Dallas. Lots of tight windy streets. The car was wonderful, very tight, accurate and responsive. It felt stronger than the Z06 I drove earlier with better brakes. The only thing I did not like was the vague shifter with the long throws. It was a very enjoyable drive and still sits in my mind today.
Last, I drove the 02' M3. This was a low mileage car with less than 10K miles. The interior looked new without a single mark or crack in the interior. It even smelled new. It was fairly tight. I noticed more chassis flex than the other cars, yes more than even the Vette. It has a smooth amount of torque and power, just less than the Carrera. The engines actually feel very similar. What really stood out was as you shift into the next gear, you could feel a surge of torque immediately. What did not stand out was the rest of the car. The interior is...cheap. At least that's how it looks and feels. The brakes were mushy and the shifter was vague. The handling was extremely disappointing. It understeers badly, particularly at slower speeds. Turn-in is poor at best and worst of any car I have driven in the last 5 years. Only on 1 turn I took fast, over 50 mph on throttle, could I get the car close to neutral. I got out of it and back into my G35 and the test drive just made the G35 seem a lot better. It has a nicer interior, better handling, shifter and brakes. It just lacked the power. The M3 was a big disappointment, especially since I have driven an E36 M3 before and they are very neutral with great turn-in. I drove a 2nd E46 M3 a week or 2 later on 19's and it was ever worse. The ride grossly deteriorated and even at high speeds it understeered horribly. It was actually this series of test drives that kept me in my G35 coupe for another year and a half and what infuenced me to only look at a 996 for its replacement.
I haven't driven an S4, but I am curious to how it compares to the M3. I have not been looking at a sedan, so it is not on my list.
04-22-2006, 12:29 AM
#18
Banned
taking "ring" times as absolute values is .... laughable. they're just fun numbers to throw around. grain of salt at best.
and the G35 interior being better than the M3's? The carrera's interior better than the M3's? totally beauty is in the eyes of the beholder deal.
M3 a horribly understeering car? wow.
Carrera > M3 > B7 S4
and the G35 interior being better than the M3's? The carrera's interior better than the M3's? totally beauty is in the eyes of the beholder deal.
M3 a horribly understeering car? wow.
Carrera > M3 > B7 S4
04-22-2006, 01:03 AM
#19
Rennlist Member
I'm contemplanting a move from M3 to 996. I think I'd miss the M3 'hooligan' manners. Having owned a 993 and a B5 S4 I'll say the C2 is my fav.
Ben - yes the M3 is an understeering pig (at the track). Needs a stiffer swaybar.
Ben - yes the M3 is an understeering pig (at the track). Needs a stiffer swaybar.
04-22-2006, 01:05 AM
#20
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I also test drove those 3 cars (S4, M3, 996, and many, many others, hey may as well enjoy the process) whenever I was shopping around. These are all fine cars, without a doubt, and the choice ultimately comes down to what you are looking for. Strangely, I was not shopping for a P, but a "fun" car. After I test drove a 996 C2 it became crystal clear that that is exactly the feel I was looking for. There are things about the 996 I am less impressed about, the interior, the radio, but that is not what that car is all about.
The M3 is fine car, has more space, is more practical, uses more fuel,
but it's heavier, and I don't like heavy cars. Power seems to come on much later than the 996.
Chances are that the M3s are marginally more reliable than the P's. The clever electronics impressed me as well though it concerned me as well. I like simpler cars. The previous poster commented on the M3 brakes. Something must have been wrong because I felt that the M3 brakes were significantly grabbier than the 996s (at least when cold, can't comment on hot).
I liken the S4 (the one with the V8) as an A4 with a hemi. It's a much
bigger heavier car, not as tossable as the 996 though the AWD may give it an interesting advantage in some situations (note that I did like the 996 C4s as much fun as the C2s). Unlike the M3, low end is
better, and the price is less as well. The interior left me cold though.
Audi's reliability is below that of BMW.
My #2 choice of all the cars I drove was the VW R32. It's a blast to drive, very practical, but ultimately the build quality and reliability left me a bit concerned (pieces were already falling off before the car left the lot), service quality is still a problem.
So ultimately it comes down to what you like best, or what you want to do with the car.
The M3 is fine car, has more space, is more practical, uses more fuel,
but it's heavier, and I don't like heavy cars. Power seems to come on much later than the 996.
Chances are that the M3s are marginally more reliable than the P's. The clever electronics impressed me as well though it concerned me as well. I like simpler cars. The previous poster commented on the M3 brakes. Something must have been wrong because I felt that the M3 brakes were significantly grabbier than the 996s (at least when cold, can't comment on hot).
I liken the S4 (the one with the V8) as an A4 with a hemi. It's a much
bigger heavier car, not as tossable as the 996 though the AWD may give it an interesting advantage in some situations (note that I did like the 996 C4s as much fun as the C2s). Unlike the M3, low end is
better, and the price is less as well. The interior left me cold though.
Audi's reliability is below that of BMW.
My #2 choice of all the cars I drove was the VW R32. It's a blast to drive, very practical, but ultimately the build quality and reliability left me a bit concerned (pieces were already falling off before the car left the lot), service quality is still a problem.
So ultimately it comes down to what you like best, or what you want to do with the car.
04-22-2006, 01:59 AM
#21
Banned
Originally Posted by nota_troll
I'm contemplanting a move from M3 to 996. I think I'd miss the M3 'hooligan' manners. Having owned a 993 and a B5 S4 I'll say the C2 is my fav.
Ben - yes the M3 is an understeering pig (at the track). Needs a stiffer swaybar.
Ben - yes the M3 is an understeering pig (at the track). Needs a stiffer swaybar.
04-22-2006, 02:00 AM
#22
Banned
Originally Posted by FlashingBlade
I also test drove those 3 cars (S4, M3, 996, and many, many others, hey may as well enjoy the process) whenever I was shopping around. These are all fine cars, without a doubt, and the choice ultimately comes down to what you are looking for. Strangely, I was not shopping for a P, but a "fun" car. After I test drove a 996 C2 it became crystal clear that that is exactly the feel I was looking for. There are things about the 996 I am less impressed about, the interior, the radio, but that is not what that car is all about.
The M3 is fine car, has more space, is more practical, uses more fuel,
but it's heavier, and I don't like heavy cars. Power seems to come on much later than the 996.
Chances are that the M3s are marginally more reliable than the P's. The clever electronics impressed me as well though it concerned me as well. I like simpler cars. The previous poster commented on the M3 brakes. Something must have been wrong because I felt that the M3 brakes were significantly grabbier than the 996s (at least when cold, can't comment on hot).
I liken the S4 (the one with the V8) as an A4 with a hemi. It's a much
bigger heavier car, not as tossable as the 996 though the AWD may give it an interesting advantage in some situations (note that I did like the 996 C4s as much fun as the C2s). Unlike the M3, low end is
better, and the price is less as well. The interior left me cold though.
Audi's reliability is below that of BMW.
My #2 choice of all the cars I drove was the VW R32. It's a blast to drive, very practical, but ultimately the build quality and reliability left me a bit concerned (pieces were already falling off before the car left the lot), service quality is still a problem.
So ultimately it comes down to what you like best, or what you want to do with the car.
The M3 is fine car, has more space, is more practical, uses more fuel,
but it's heavier, and I don't like heavy cars. Power seems to come on much later than the 996.
Chances are that the M3s are marginally more reliable than the P's. The clever electronics impressed me as well though it concerned me as well. I like simpler cars. The previous poster commented on the M3 brakes. Something must have been wrong because I felt that the M3 brakes were significantly grabbier than the 996s (at least when cold, can't comment on hot).
I liken the S4 (the one with the V8) as an A4 with a hemi. It's a much
bigger heavier car, not as tossable as the 996 though the AWD may give it an interesting advantage in some situations (note that I did like the 996 C4s as much fun as the C2s). Unlike the M3, low end is
better, and the price is less as well. The interior left me cold though.
Audi's reliability is below that of BMW.
My #2 choice of all the cars I drove was the VW R32. It's a blast to drive, very practical, but ultimately the build quality and reliability left me a bit concerned (pieces were already falling off before the car left the lot), service quality is still a problem.
So ultimately it comes down to what you like best, or what you want to do with the car.
04-22-2006, 08:10 PM
#23
Rennlist Member
Benjamin Choi - I'm absolutely 100% certain my S4 does everything better than my C2 or my M3 did.
I like my C2 a lot - handles great, cab, fast enough, etc....I've just modded the weak parts of my S4.
They are obviously completely different cars meant for completely different purposes, but, with mods my S4 would better my C2 in a straight line and on a track.
A modded C2, forget it, it would turn circles around the Audi on a track. My C2 is stock.
Put some bigger turbos, suspension and brakes on the Audi and you have yourself a pretty incredible all around performer.
Again, stock for stock C2>M3>S4.
In my S4s current state:
S4>C2 (stock)>M3 (stock).
I like my C2 a lot - handles great, cab, fast enough, etc....I've just modded the weak parts of my S4.
They are obviously completely different cars meant for completely different purposes, but, with mods my S4 would better my C2 in a straight line and on a track.
A modded C2, forget it, it would turn circles around the Audi on a track. My C2 is stock.
Put some bigger turbos, suspension and brakes on the Audi and you have yourself a pretty incredible all around performer.
Again, stock for stock C2>M3>S4.
In my S4s current state:
S4>C2 (stock)>M3 (stock).
04-22-2006, 08:34 PM
#24
Rennlist Member
I have two of them myself a 02 M3 and 99 C2 and straight line the M3 beats the C2 in my experience. My M3 does also have a Dinan Software Stage I Performance Upgrade but otherwise still revs faster and is slightly faster in a straight line to 60mph. After that they get to be pretty even. As for handling, the C2 does it better...feels like I am on rails and one with the road. The M3 is nice especially in sport mode but the C2 is better. Both beat the S4 I'd think...but haven't ever owned or driven one.
04-22-2006, 11:13 PM
#26
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by mdrobc1213
I have two of them myself a 02 M3 and 99 C2 and straight line the M3 beats the C2 in my experience. My M3 does also have a Dinan Software Stage I Performance Upgrade but otherwise still revs faster and is slightly faster in a straight line to 60mph. After that they get to be pretty even. As for handling, the C2 does it better...feels like I am on rails and one with the road. The M3 is nice especially in sport mode but the C2 is better. Both beat the S4 I'd think...but haven't ever owned or driven one.
M3 beats C2... that's questionable... they are both pretty close... comes down to driver... if you do a timed run... the 99C2 is faster... 4.6 to 60 for my 99 c2.
from a stoplight the rear weight bias of a C2 will *always* give you a better launch... but I'm stopping right here cause I didn't buy the C2 to dragrace... lol...
handling yes... C2 is miles ahead... especially with some type of sport suspension...
I raced a V8 S4 last night... in gear acceleration I pulled on him and then we had 2 stoplight drag races.... at the lights I raped him; but then drag racing comes down to driver skill...
04-22-2006, 11:17 PM
#27
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by jasonfreed
Benjamin Choi - I'm absolutely 100% certain my S4 does everything better than my C2 or my M3 did.
I like my C2 a lot - handles great, cab, fast enough, etc....I've just modded the weak parts of my S4.
They are obviously completely different cars meant for completely different purposes, but, with mods my S4 would better my C2 in a straight line and on a track.
A modded C2, forget it, it would turn circles around the Audi on a track. My C2 is stock.
Put some bigger turbos, suspension and brakes on the Audi and you have yourself a pretty incredible all around performer.
Again, stock for stock C2>M3>S4.
In my S4s current state:
S4>C2 (stock)>M3 (stock).
I like my C2 a lot - handles great, cab, fast enough, etc....I've just modded the weak parts of my S4.
They are obviously completely different cars meant for completely different purposes, but, with mods my S4 would better my C2 in a straight line and on a track.
A modded C2, forget it, it would turn circles around the Audi on a track. My C2 is stock.
Put some bigger turbos, suspension and brakes on the Audi and you have yourself a pretty incredible all around performer.
Again, stock for stock C2>M3>S4.
In my S4s current state:
S4>C2 (stock)>M3 (stock).
The Audi is a great performer and with turbo tunability it certainly is fast and has great daily utility + winter capability... can't go wrong with that...
The RS4 looks like it would pull a 1/4 mile time in the high 12's.... from the numbers I"ve seen that car is seriously fast and handing to boot!!
04-22-2006, 11:18 PM
#28
Banned
what about that sound fellas? esp when you're cruising at 15mph... that boxer engine sounds like a damn rolls royce jet engine on the boeing airplanes. THe M3 sounds horrible and the Audi is just OK.
04-23-2006, 12:06 PM
#29
Pro
Originally Posted by c70Pete
www.track-challenge.com
you can compare cars (even 3.4 996 & 3.6 996) to eachother in terms of acceleration, track times around the "ring" and "hockenheim"
the c2 and m3 will both take out an S4 no problem... in any acceleration test.
you can compare cars (even 3.4 996 & 3.6 996) to eachother in terms of acceleration, track times around the "ring" and "hockenheim"
the c2 and m3 will both take out an S4 no problem... in any acceleration test.
04-23-2006, 12:12 PM
#30
Three Wheelin'
that's because you compared the MK1 GT3 to the Carrera S... if you go back in the dropdown list there is the newer gt3 listed.... (2003)... the newer GT3 blows the "S" away.... so the new Carrera S is impressive when you see it's faster (by a hair) than the MK1 GT3!!!
the list also shows 99 3.4 996 and the newer 3.6 996...
enjoy
the list also shows 99 3.4 996 and the newer 3.6 996...
enjoy