Subwoofer in the front? Any info or examples?
06-18-2002, 04:09 PM
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Subwoofer in the front? Any info or examples?
I'm a bit of a car audio buff and back in my competition days we always wished we could get the subwoofer in the front of the car to prevent the perception that the bass comes from the rear. Now, I know that the perception that bass comes from the rear has a lot to do with upper harmonics, vibrating panels, and the like. But those problems are something that almost always exists in cars and is hard to eliminate without 200 pounds of fibreglass and sound deadening materials.
The question then is, can a subwoofer be installed in the front trunk of a 996? Would the bass travel through the wall enough to be heard clearly in the passenger cabin? Has anyone tried? If it would work, it could sound phenomenal to have the sub-bass coming from the front, the way it should.
Thanks,
Ken (C4S on order)
The question then is, can a subwoofer be installed in the front trunk of a 996? Would the bass travel through the wall enough to be heard clearly in the passenger cabin? Has anyone tried? If it would work, it could sound phenomenal to have the sub-bass coming from the front, the way it should.
Thanks,
Ken (C4S on order)
06-18-2002, 04:45 PM
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I have always understood bass to be non directional.
I know that the Bose system in the 02 Cabs have the sub in the passenger footwell area. Any other sub I have seen in a 996 has been in the rear... including my own.
I am sure that if you wanted it in the front boot it could be done... with enough money, anything could be done.
I know that the Bose system in the 02 Cabs have the sub in the passenger footwell area. Any other sub I have seen in a 996 has been in the rear... including my own.
I am sure that if you wanted it in the front boot it could be done... with enough money, anything could be done.
06-18-2002, 05:16 PM
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I don't think you'll be able to hear it without cutting some metal walls away between the trunk and the floor area. Probably not a good thing to do considering there's no engine for protection in a head on crash. There must be some safety impact thing you'll weaken if you did cut a chunk out. Too bad it's not like my M3 where there's a hole between the trunk and the rear seats for the ski rack. I put a 10" sub box in the trunk and it sounds great up front.
Good luck and let us know what you find out. I would like to do some audio stuff to the 996 also.
Good luck and let us know what you find out. I would like to do some audio stuff to the 996 also.
06-18-2002, 08:19 PM
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Subwoofer in front trunk can be done. I'm getting my system installed (subwoofers are behind the rear seats). I talked to the installer and he said that they have done a Porsche and put the subwoofers in the front. He said they had to cut a hole in the metal and put a port for the bass to hit towards the feet of the front passengers. He did not have any pictures and said it was very costly and that he wouldn't recommend doing it.
06-19-2002, 10:00 AM
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Anybody have an '02 Targa. I SWEAR when I sat in one at the dealer, the Bose subwoofer was in the center console up front....I felt the bass on my leg. My C4S w/ Bose has the sub in the back.
06-19-2002, 10:09 AM
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Thanks for the input gentleman.
Certainly I wouldn't do it if it required cutting holes. In most cars, there is enough "leakage" pre se between the trunk and the passenger cabin that the sub-bass comes through fine into the passenger cabin. I am learning that this might not be the case with the 996. So unless there is an available three or four inch hole in the wall between trunk and cabin, it probably won't work the same way a subwoofer in a normal trunk would because too much higher-frequency information would get filtered out requiring the use of very strong mid-bass drivers.
Sloth, you are absolutely correct that sub-bass is non-directional below 80 to 100 Hz. BUT, the harmonics that a vibrating subwoofer produces, which occur in the subwoofer cone itself, the basket, whatever enclosure is built to house it (unless you make it out of concrete) and especially, the interior panels on the vehicle, cause higher-frequency cues that your ears perceive as a rearward bass bias. In my experience, a lot of effort is required to prevent this, including extremely high-priced subwoofers, very heavy enclosures, and a lot of mass-damping material, which is exactly what I don't want.
So at some point you just take what you can get and put the subs in the rear as you did. I have built enclosures out of fibreglass with sandwich composite walls and internal bracing. These work well and are often only about 30% of the weight of standard enclosures but take 10 times as long to make.
I'm reminded of one car I listened to at a Car Audio show. It was a BMW 540i. The owner, Earl Zausmer, had gone to great lengths to install subwoofers in the kick panel area of his BMW. They were 10 or 12 inch drivers mounted in massive holes cut into the kick panel area. I have never heard a sound system that sounded as close to a good home audio system. The sub-bass, and all its harmonics, coming from the front, as it should, just sounded so much better than all but the most elaborate rear-sub systems. And his had no enclosures- the woofers were modified to work in the semi-free-air environment.
If something could be done to install a subwoofer in the 996 trunk without major vehicle reconstruction, it might yield some excellent results.
Cheers,
Ken
Certainly I wouldn't do it if it required cutting holes. In most cars, there is enough "leakage" pre se between the trunk and the passenger cabin that the sub-bass comes through fine into the passenger cabin. I am learning that this might not be the case with the 996. So unless there is an available three or four inch hole in the wall between trunk and cabin, it probably won't work the same way a subwoofer in a normal trunk would because too much higher-frequency information would get filtered out requiring the use of very strong mid-bass drivers.
Sloth, you are absolutely correct that sub-bass is non-directional below 80 to 100 Hz. BUT, the harmonics that a vibrating subwoofer produces, which occur in the subwoofer cone itself, the basket, whatever enclosure is built to house it (unless you make it out of concrete) and especially, the interior panels on the vehicle, cause higher-frequency cues that your ears perceive as a rearward bass bias. In my experience, a lot of effort is required to prevent this, including extremely high-priced subwoofers, very heavy enclosures, and a lot of mass-damping material, which is exactly what I don't want.
So at some point you just take what you can get and put the subs in the rear as you did. I have built enclosures out of fibreglass with sandwich composite walls and internal bracing. These work well and are often only about 30% of the weight of standard enclosures but take 10 times as long to make.
I'm reminded of one car I listened to at a Car Audio show. It was a BMW 540i. The owner, Earl Zausmer, had gone to great lengths to install subwoofers in the kick panel area of his BMW. They were 10 or 12 inch drivers mounted in massive holes cut into the kick panel area. I have never heard a sound system that sounded as close to a good home audio system. The sub-bass, and all its harmonics, coming from the front, as it should, just sounded so much better than all but the most elaborate rear-sub systems. And his had no enclosures- the woofers were modified to work in the semi-free-air environment.
If something could be done to install a subwoofer in the 996 trunk without major vehicle reconstruction, it might yield some excellent results.
Cheers,
Ken
06-19-2002, 10:39 AM
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FWIW I believe the sub woofer is under the front console in my 02 Cab w/bost option...because it takes a special cut passenger floor mat to lay in properly.
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06-19-2002, 01:01 PM
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I had a custom box built in the front footwell with a gain switch mounted on the dash...You can't even tell there is a sub in the car until I crank up the 8 channel A/D/S 1,000 WATT amplifier.
06-19-2002, 02:14 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by Ken Kammerer:
<strong>Thanks for the input gentleman.
Sloth, you are absolutely correct that sub-bass is non-directional below 80 to 100 Hz. BUT, the harmonics that a vibrating subwoofer produces, which occur in the subwoofer cone itself, the basket, whatever enclosure is built to house it (unless you make it out of concrete) and especially, the interior panels on the vehicle, cause higher-frequency cues that your ears perceive as a rearward bass bias. In my experience, a lot of effort is required to prevent this, including extremely high-priced subwoofers, very heavy enclosures, and a lot of mass-damping material, which is exactly what I don't want.
So at some point you just take what you can get and put the subs in the rear as you did. I have built enclosures out of fibreglass with sandwich composite walls and internal bracing. These work well and are often only about 30% of the weight of standard enclosures but take 10 times as long to make.
I'm reminded of one car I listened to at a Car Audio show. It was a BMW 540i. The owner, Earl Zausmer, had gone to great lengths to install subwoofers in the kick panel area of his BMW. They were 10 or 12 inch drivers mounted in massive holes cut into the kick panel area. I have never heard a sound system that sounded as close to a good home audio system. The sub-bass, and all its harmonics, coming from the front, as it should, just sounded so much better than all but the most elaborate rear-sub systems. And his had no enclosures- the woofers were modified to work in the semi-free-air environment.
Cheers,
Ken</strong><hr></blockquote>
My set up has minimal rattles and sounds great IMO. The subs are (2) 8"JL W0. I am not sure what material the box is made of or how much it weighs. They had to remove the rear carpet in order to make it fit flush. Car Audio Inovations in California builds a similar box that does not require the removal of the carpet.
I remember years ago there was a guy that installed a custom system based on home stereo components into his BMW. It included some odd size sub in one of the ffront kick panels. I wonder if it is the same car?
I have seen a few other setups... perhaps ask the same question on the 996 board at <a href="http://www.funcarsonline.com" target="_blank">Funcars Online.</a>. There are several people there that have modified their stereos that may have some more info for you. Good luck regardless of what you do.
<a href="http://www.sounddomain.com/id/sloth996" target="_blank">My custom stereo system</a>
<strong>Thanks for the input gentleman.
Sloth, you are absolutely correct that sub-bass is non-directional below 80 to 100 Hz. BUT, the harmonics that a vibrating subwoofer produces, which occur in the subwoofer cone itself, the basket, whatever enclosure is built to house it (unless you make it out of concrete) and especially, the interior panels on the vehicle, cause higher-frequency cues that your ears perceive as a rearward bass bias. In my experience, a lot of effort is required to prevent this, including extremely high-priced subwoofers, very heavy enclosures, and a lot of mass-damping material, which is exactly what I don't want.
So at some point you just take what you can get and put the subs in the rear as you did. I have built enclosures out of fibreglass with sandwich composite walls and internal bracing. These work well and are often only about 30% of the weight of standard enclosures but take 10 times as long to make.
I'm reminded of one car I listened to at a Car Audio show. It was a BMW 540i. The owner, Earl Zausmer, had gone to great lengths to install subwoofers in the kick panel area of his BMW. They were 10 or 12 inch drivers mounted in massive holes cut into the kick panel area. I have never heard a sound system that sounded as close to a good home audio system. The sub-bass, and all its harmonics, coming from the front, as it should, just sounded so much better than all but the most elaborate rear-sub systems. And his had no enclosures- the woofers were modified to work in the semi-free-air environment.
Cheers,
Ken</strong><hr></blockquote>
My set up has minimal rattles and sounds great IMO. The subs are (2) 8"JL W0. I am not sure what material the box is made of or how much it weighs. They had to remove the rear carpet in order to make it fit flush. Car Audio Inovations in California builds a similar box that does not require the removal of the carpet.
I remember years ago there was a guy that installed a custom system based on home stereo components into his BMW. It included some odd size sub in one of the ffront kick panels. I wonder if it is the same car?
I have seen a few other setups... perhaps ask the same question on the 996 board at <a href="http://www.funcarsonline.com" target="_blank">Funcars Online.</a>. There are several people there that have modified their stereos that may have some more info for you. Good luck regardless of what you do.
<a href="http://www.sounddomain.com/id/sloth996" target="_blank">My custom stereo system</a>
06-20-2002, 07:21 AM
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Hi New to the forum and reading a lot about
some members thinking that a new car is required
if a fault like a gearbox goes wrong.
When we purchase a new car we know we get a warranty and we agree to the warranty conditions.
So why when a mechanical problem comes along
we than demand the warranty condition changed.
On P.D the dealer can not alwas see a problem
that may happen in 60 miles and if we picked up
our cars after the dealer had driven it for 60 or more miles on PD we would be up set that they put to many miles on it.
So think about it as long as the dealer is doing
every thing they can and the damage was not from
the dealer direct we should except the normal warranty process.
But still let your dealer know you are upset and
you would only except the repairs if they are carried out to the factory standards.
If they damage your car when it is in for repairs
than this is a dealer proplem and not a warranty
problem.
Maybe you can put in writing to your dealer that
if the reparis are not to factory standards that
than the dealer is at fault and then he may take
more care whith your repars.
P.S my C4s is the best thing to drive and when you get yours back you will see that you have purchased the best car on the road.
some members thinking that a new car is required
if a fault like a gearbox goes wrong.
When we purchase a new car we know we get a warranty and we agree to the warranty conditions.
So why when a mechanical problem comes along
we than demand the warranty condition changed.
On P.D the dealer can not alwas see a problem
that may happen in 60 miles and if we picked up
our cars after the dealer had driven it for 60 or more miles on PD we would be up set that they put to many miles on it.
So think about it as long as the dealer is doing
every thing they can and the damage was not from
the dealer direct we should except the normal warranty process.
But still let your dealer know you are upset and
you would only except the repairs if they are carried out to the factory standards.
If they damage your car when it is in for repairs
than this is a dealer proplem and not a warranty
problem.
Maybe you can put in writing to your dealer that
if the reparis are not to factory standards that
than the dealer is at fault and then he may take
more care whith your repars.
P.S my C4s is the best thing to drive and when you get yours back you will see that you have purchased the best car on the road.
06-26-2002, 04:58 AM
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Wow, a blast from the past. Earl's red 5 series BMW was something out of this world. I believe that he used B&W speakers in it and the front set of tweeters and mids were taken out of a $8,000 or $9,000 set of speakers or something crazy like that. The tweeter pods actually rose out of the dash via motors and the front quarter panels of the car were removable without any tools, I believe this was the free air portion of the front sub application. He used the front quarter panel area as sub boxes....
Ken, your idea to put a sub in the front of a 996 is not too far fetched. I have the Reus system and they came up with an incredibly well designed sub system for the front of the 996 both C2 and C4. Actually, the whole system is well designed and if you are looking for audiophile quality sound... check them out. The imaging and soundstage is fantastic and the service is top notch. Definitely on the pricey side but as Ferris put it, "If you have the means, I highly recommend it"
Ken, your idea to put a sub in the front of a 996 is not too far fetched. I have the Reus system and they came up with an incredibly well designed sub system for the front of the 996 both C2 and C4. Actually, the whole system is well designed and if you are looking for audiophile quality sound... check them out. The imaging and soundstage is fantastic and the service is top notch. Definitely on the pricey side but as Ferris put it, "If you have the means, I highly recommend it"
06-26-2002, 09:22 AM
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[quote]Originally posted by Robert 01' 996 Cab:
<strong>Wow, a blast from the past. Earl's red 5 series BMW was something out of this world. I believe that he used B&W speakers in it and the front set of tweeters and mids were taken out of a $8,000 or $9,000 set of speakers or something crazy like that. The tweeter pods actually rose out of the dash via motors and the front quarter panels of the car were removable without any tools, I believe this was the free air portion of the front sub application. He used the front quarter panel area as sub boxes....
</strong><hr></blockquote>
That is the one I was thinking about.
<img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" />
<strong>Wow, a blast from the past. Earl's red 5 series BMW was something out of this world. I believe that he used B&W speakers in it and the front set of tweeters and mids were taken out of a $8,000 or $9,000 set of speakers or something crazy like that. The tweeter pods actually rose out of the dash via motors and the front quarter panels of the car were removable without any tools, I believe this was the free air portion of the front sub application. He used the front quarter panel area as sub boxes....
</strong><hr></blockquote>
That is the one I was thinking about.
<img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" />
06-26-2002, 12:03 PM
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You may want to check out the Reuss Audio. They specialize in hi-end audio systems for Porsches, Ferraris etc. A system that I heard sounded extremely good 
More to the point: they install a subwoofer inside a spare tire in the front! So it takes up just a little of useable space. I wish I had pictures...
More to the point: they install a subwoofer inside a spare tire in the front! So it takes up just a little of useable space. I wish I had pictures...
06-26-2002, 12:30 PM
#14
[quote]Originally posted by VS:
<strong>You may want to check out the Reuss Audio. They specialize in hi-end audio systems for Porsches, Ferraris etc. A system that I heard sounded extremely good
More to the point: they install a subwoofer inside a spare tire in the front! So it takes up just a little of useable space. I wish I had pictures...</strong><hr></blockquote>
Where do I get ahold of them??
<strong>You may want to check out the Reuss Audio. They specialize in hi-end audio systems for Porsches, Ferraris etc. A system that I heard sounded extremely good
More to the point: they install a subwoofer inside a spare tire in the front! So it takes up just a little of useable space. I wish I had pictures...</strong><hr></blockquote>
Where do I get ahold of them??
06-28-2002, 11:04 AM
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Correction: they are "Reus" not "Reuss"
Reus Audio Systems 800-276-8865.
Email: Reus Audio Systems.
<a href="http://www.reusaudio.com/contact_us.html" target="_blank">www.reusaudio.com/contact_us.html</a>
Reus Audio Systems 800-276-8865.
Email: Reus Audio Systems.
<a href="http://www.reusaudio.com/contact_us.html" target="_blank">www.reusaudio.com/contact_us.html</a>