OT: PC's vs. Mac
06-25-2003, 02:30 PM
#16
Three Wheelin'
i've been using MAC for 8 years. actually i don't really know how to use a PC. just can't get use to it!
to me, everything looks nicer to me on a MAC, but trust me! MAC has its own problem, at least for me, and most of my friends.
i'm a graphic designer, so MAC is a must have. can't live without it! however, the problem is it seems know u very well. for example, printing problem occurs before the project due day, freezing when u're in a rush, u name it...
moreover, u are not gonna find software that easy compare to PC. prepare to spend $ on the software u must have. (big $ for me!)
go check out the new G5. just out yesterday! u'll also love the way how OS X looks, + itune, isync, iphoto, ical. tons of cool softwares.
let me know if u get it. i'll tell u more tricks to make it even cooler. at least PC user will ask u "what's that" "how u do it" that kind of thing!
to me, everything looks nicer to me on a MAC, but trust me! MAC has its own problem, at least for me, and most of my friends.
i'm a graphic designer, so MAC is a must have. can't live without it! however, the problem is it seems know u very well. for example, printing problem occurs before the project due day, freezing when u're in a rush, u name it...
moreover, u are not gonna find software that easy compare to PC. prepare to spend $ on the software u must have. (big $ for me!)
go check out the new G5. just out yesterday! u'll also love the way how OS X looks, + itune, isync, iphoto, ical. tons of cool softwares.
let me know if u get it. i'll tell u more tricks to make it even cooler. at least PC user will ask u "what's that" "how u do it" that kind of thing!
06-25-2003, 02:45 PM
#17
Three Wheelin'
Keyvan,
the word "boring" don't go with MAC very well. seems to me u need to learn it ! =)
reliable, i don't know. i hate it sometimes. but i love it always.
PC, i don't know. i'll get one soon to try out
to me, PORSCHE = MAC (price, and maybe all that silver ****) look nice & will u say a "boring" porsche?
the word "boring" don't go with MAC very well. seems to me u need to learn it ! =)
reliable, i don't know. i hate it sometimes. but i love it always.
PC, i don't know. i'll get one soon to try out
to me, PORSCHE = MAC (price, and maybe all that silver ****) look nice & will u say a "boring" porsche?
06-25-2003, 05:54 PM
#18
Track Day
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Something I actually know about...
1. How tough to make the switch
Not tough. Unlearning/relearning takes a couple of weeks of use. A good book helps a lot.
2. Are there any disavantages as far as certain software versions not being available for the Mac
Yes. I would recommend that you make a list of everything you use and check Mac availability. Then decide what you can live without. Office is no problem, but if you're a web developer who does a lot of ASP, you're better of with a PC.
3. Feel free to add a comment on Desktops vs. Laptops too...
Like 'em both.
General comments: the iLife bundle is really nice, and I find that editing movies, music, and photos are easier in the Mac universe. iTunes music store is currently only available for the Mac (OSX). Ease of use, user-interface, and stability are similar now between both platforms, in general (slight advantage to Mac). PCs still have the edge in extensibility and flexibility.
My opinions of course...
gs
1. How tough to make the switch
Not tough. Unlearning/relearning takes a couple of weeks of use. A good book helps a lot.
2. Are there any disavantages as far as certain software versions not being available for the Mac
Yes. I would recommend that you make a list of everything you use and check Mac availability. Then decide what you can live without. Office is no problem, but if you're a web developer who does a lot of ASP, you're better of with a PC.
3. Feel free to add a comment on Desktops vs. Laptops too...
Like 'em both.
General comments: the iLife bundle is really nice, and I find that editing movies, music, and photos are easier in the Mac universe. iTunes music store is currently only available for the Mac (OSX). Ease of use, user-interface, and stability are similar now between both platforms, in general (slight advantage to Mac). PCs still have the edge in extensibility and flexibility.
My opinions of course...
gs
06-25-2003, 10:30 PM
#19
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Way off topic! But since I’m a CTO in the IT industry, I couldn’t resist offering a more balanced response…
1. How tough to make the switch
Depends on whether or not the new Mac has to work within an otherwise PC-centric environment. I have a G4 with OSX working with 5 Windows computers on my home network. However, some things that are easy in an all-windows network were hard (wireless printing to shared print server using drivers from the print manufacturer, filesharing without the Mac depositing unnecessary ".dstore" files in PC directories, setting up a VPN connection to my corporate network, etc.). However, if you have the skills to work through the solutions, you also have the skills to do some things you wouldn't try with PC's. Like stream your iTunes music library to each PC's Windows Media Player, publish a website from your iPhoto album with a push of a button, not to mention all of the geeky unix things you can do by getting under the covers.
2. Are there any disavantages as far as certain software versions not being available for the Mac
I use Entourage and Microsoft Office X - the functional equivalent of Outlook and MSOffice. I haven't come across a single compatibility issue. Same with Explorer on the Mac (though a little unstable). Lots of other browsers to choose from. iMovie is great, but you have to be careful with file types to ensure it will play on a PC. Under OS X, no straightforward way to play .wmv files, but .avi, .mov, etc. all work fine. Windows Media Player for OS X works fine too, but it still won’t play .wmv files? So many apps out there, so it's hard to generalize. All I can say is that I used a portable IOMEGA drive to copy my entire document library from a PC to the Mac, and have been able to open and edit every file I have needed.
3. Feel free to add a comment on Desktops vs. Laptops too...
Intel has finally surpassed Apple performance… on the desktop. They do this by packing more circuits on the chip and running the chips at faster speeds. Apple’s current chip architecture has run out of steam, but has been an inherently faster chip design before Intel put theirs on steroids. PC’s are now faster, but also hotter and noisier (bigger cooling fans). But you can’t run laptops that way. Hot laptops fail more frequently and bigger cooling fans work against the objective of smaller size. So Apple laptops are a great performance buy. Beyond that, most of what you hear regarding performance comparisons is biased, anecdotal, or out of context. Just conduct a side-by-side comparison of the apps YOU intend to use. (for me, the “creative arts” applications are much faster on the Mac, but “office” applications are too close to call).
I have a hard time over-simplifying to a p-car analogy like those above, but think about this… PC’s are not manufactured by Intel or Microsoft. Product design is all over the board. Apple is a manufacturer, and takes product design very seriously. Sound familiar?
1. How tough to make the switch
Depends on whether or not the new Mac has to work within an otherwise PC-centric environment. I have a G4 with OSX working with 5 Windows computers on my home network. However, some things that are easy in an all-windows network were hard (wireless printing to shared print server using drivers from the print manufacturer, filesharing without the Mac depositing unnecessary ".dstore" files in PC directories, setting up a VPN connection to my corporate network, etc.). However, if you have the skills to work through the solutions, you also have the skills to do some things you wouldn't try with PC's. Like stream your iTunes music library to each PC's Windows Media Player, publish a website from your iPhoto album with a push of a button, not to mention all of the geeky unix things you can do by getting under the covers.
2. Are there any disavantages as far as certain software versions not being available for the Mac
I use Entourage and Microsoft Office X - the functional equivalent of Outlook and MSOffice. I haven't come across a single compatibility issue. Same with Explorer on the Mac (though a little unstable). Lots of other browsers to choose from. iMovie is great, but you have to be careful with file types to ensure it will play on a PC. Under OS X, no straightforward way to play .wmv files, but .avi, .mov, etc. all work fine. Windows Media Player for OS X works fine too, but it still won’t play .wmv files? So many apps out there, so it's hard to generalize. All I can say is that I used a portable IOMEGA drive to copy my entire document library from a PC to the Mac, and have been able to open and edit every file I have needed.
3. Feel free to add a comment on Desktops vs. Laptops too...
Intel has finally surpassed Apple performance… on the desktop. They do this by packing more circuits on the chip and running the chips at faster speeds. Apple’s current chip architecture has run out of steam, but has been an inherently faster chip design before Intel put theirs on steroids. PC’s are now faster, but also hotter and noisier (bigger cooling fans). But you can’t run laptops that way. Hot laptops fail more frequently and bigger cooling fans work against the objective of smaller size. So Apple laptops are a great performance buy. Beyond that, most of what you hear regarding performance comparisons is biased, anecdotal, or out of context. Just conduct a side-by-side comparison of the apps YOU intend to use. (for me, the “creative arts” applications are much faster on the Mac, but “office” applications are too close to call).
I have a hard time over-simplifying to a p-car analogy like those above, but think about this… PC’s are not manufactured by Intel or Microsoft. Product design is all over the board. Apple is a manufacturer, and takes product design very seriously. Sound familiar?
06-26-2003, 09:40 AM
#22
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by 20C4S:
<strong>ervtx,
a typical PORSCHE guys question for u, (sorry for the OT)
is the new G5 chip faster than Intel?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">A Porsche guy answer:
Is a V8 faster than a straight 6?
The speed of a chip can be determined only by combining it with all of other components that make up a computer, and then timing the duration of application tasks. There are so many variables that the G5 will be faster some of the time, and slower some of the time. The G5 certainly makes it a race again, and as a result, the other variables take on even more weight.
Below is just a peek at why you can't trust anything other than your own side-by-side comparisons of the apps YOU intend to use (exerpts from an article at The Mac Observer). Note: Apple is certainly not the only company guilty of the practices described)...
Apple released cross-platform benchmark results based on SPEC CPU 2000 benchmarks -- a benchmarking system that has historically shown less favorable results for the G4 than for the x86 world -- conducted by VeriTest in a paid for study. The tests compared the dual G5 to a single-processor 3.06 GHz P4 (with only one processor used on the G5 as well), and to a dual 3 GHz Xeon.
The results showed that the G5 was less fast than both Intel models in SPECint_base2000 tests, which measures integer performance. Apple said it was 10% slower than the Intel processors on this test. The results also showed that the G5 was 21% faster than the Intel processors in the SPECfp_base2000 tests, which measures floating point prowess. According to those results (21% is more of a difference than 10%, according to a paraphrased Steve Jobs), the G5 Mac was the fastest personal computer on the planet.
The G5 was optimized from a hardware and software standpoint, while the two Dell systems tested were not similarly optimized. For instance, while G5-specific code was included in the tests, Dell's system actually had SSE2 and hyperthreading turned off, meaning that much of the potential from those systems was not even in use.
Apple's sponsored tests had the great crime of not using more Intel-friendly compilers to test the Intel machines, instead using a more Mac-friendly, but cross platform, compiler (GCC 3.3, which is used in Apple's upcoming Panther release of Mac OS X).
<end of excerpt>
In my experience, Mac-centric apps like Photoshop, Final Cut Pro, and scientific apps that rely on computational power run better on the Mac, often because they are tuned for that result. Apps that are more data-centric (e.g. business apps) tend to run better on PC's.
Individual results may vary!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
<strong>ervtx,
a typical PORSCHE guys question for u, (sorry for the OT)
is the new G5 chip faster than Intel?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">A Porsche guy answer:
Is a V8 faster than a straight 6?
The speed of a chip can be determined only by combining it with all of other components that make up a computer, and then timing the duration of application tasks. There are so many variables that the G5 will be faster some of the time, and slower some of the time. The G5 certainly makes it a race again, and as a result, the other variables take on even more weight.
Below is just a peek at why you can't trust anything other than your own side-by-side comparisons of the apps YOU intend to use (exerpts from an article at The Mac Observer). Note: Apple is certainly not the only company guilty of the practices described)...
Apple released cross-platform benchmark results based on SPEC CPU 2000 benchmarks -- a benchmarking system that has historically shown less favorable results for the G4 than for the x86 world -- conducted by VeriTest in a paid for study. The tests compared the dual G5 to a single-processor 3.06 GHz P4 (with only one processor used on the G5 as well), and to a dual 3 GHz Xeon.
The results showed that the G5 was less fast than both Intel models in SPECint_base2000 tests, which measures integer performance. Apple said it was 10% slower than the Intel processors on this test. The results also showed that the G5 was 21% faster than the Intel processors in the SPECfp_base2000 tests, which measures floating point prowess. According to those results (21% is more of a difference than 10%, according to a paraphrased Steve Jobs), the G5 Mac was the fastest personal computer on the planet.
The G5 was optimized from a hardware and software standpoint, while the two Dell systems tested were not similarly optimized. For instance, while G5-specific code was included in the tests, Dell's system actually had SSE2 and hyperthreading turned off, meaning that much of the potential from those systems was not even in use.
Apple's sponsored tests had the great crime of not using more Intel-friendly compilers to test the Intel machines, instead using a more Mac-friendly, but cross platform, compiler (GCC 3.3, which is used in Apple's upcoming Panther release of Mac OS X).
<end of excerpt>
In my experience, Mac-centric apps like Photoshop, Final Cut Pro, and scientific apps that rely on computational power run better on the Mac, often because they are tuned for that result. Apps that are more data-centric (e.g. business apps) tend to run better on PC's.
Individual results may vary!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
06-27-2003, 02:25 AM
#23
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Some really great answers to the initial post. Having worked for Apple for 11 years and Microsoft for 6 years I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents. As a number of folks mentioned either one can do the job of running basic browser, word processing, database, etc. I also believe the user interface of the two machines is reasonably similar and about equal in easy of use. For me the point of difference comes into play in two areas. First if you are using a digital camera, digital music, want to add extra hardware like an external hard disk, dvd burner, etc. Mac is your choice hands down. Much easy to add new software and hardware without having to spend time fiddling with drivers etc. Second is the design and "fit" aspect, IMHO no one does hardware design better than Apple. Much like the Porsche there is a lot of synergy in the design that has to be experienced to be appreciated. I've had the "pleasure" of owning a laptop from just about every major PC hardware vendor out there, and while the products were fine, they certainly didn't have the sense of style and design that goes with the Mac laptops. Sony is doing a nice job of design with some of their new products but they still haven't caught up with the total picture that Apple creates.
Bottom line, either will probably do the job but how much fun do you want to have while you're using the tool :-)
Bottom line, either will probably do the job but how much fun do you want to have while you're using the tool :-)
06-27-2003, 04:11 AM
#24
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Wow, so many Mac users around here! Nice!
I switched from Windows to Mac in 2000, and I'll never come back to windows. I even struggle with the Lotus Notes client (worst software ever made...) to be "compatible" in the pure Windows world of my current customer. I used to be a Windows guay, MCSE cetificationand all of that. One day I was fed up hassling with IRQs, invalid drivers and all of that. So I switched.
I use notebooks because I want to be able to work everywhere. With todays notebooks you don't need desktops for office use anymore. And especially in the notebook area Apple has very good products for an affordable price.
One problem with Macs: If you need special software (CAD, some client systems, Blackberry support, Nokia phone support etc.) you are either lost or have to spend extra money. For some programs you might use VirtualPC (I use it with Windows 2000 for MS-Project and MindManager), for other, hardware relying software it does not help. But fortunately many software producers start to make software for MacOS X (Oracle for example).
Decide and enjoy! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
I switched from Windows to Mac in 2000, and I'll never come back to windows. I even struggle with the Lotus Notes client (worst software ever made...) to be "compatible" in the pure Windows world of my current customer. I used to be a Windows guay, MCSE cetificationand all of that. One day I was fed up hassling with IRQs, invalid drivers and all of that. So I switched.
I use notebooks because I want to be able to work everywhere. With todays notebooks you don't need desktops for office use anymore. And especially in the notebook area Apple has very good products for an affordable price.
One problem with Macs: If you need special software (CAD, some client systems, Blackberry support, Nokia phone support etc.) you are either lost or have to spend extra money. For some programs you might use VirtualPC (I use it with Windows 2000 for MS-Project and MindManager), for other, hardware relying software it does not help. But fortunately many software producers start to make software for MacOS X (Oracle for example).
Decide and enjoy! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
