Phil G.

I live near Don Rosen Imports - here's the scoop and my story. First off, Don Rosen sold the dealership a few years ago - I believe it's now owned by Jerry Miller (and others?). They also sold Don Rosen BMW to Devon Hill - now operates under the name BMW of the Main Line. Don and his partner Rich Frankel own Audi of Huntingdon Valley (which I do lots of business with and like very much) and Infinity of Willow Grove. For some reason, the DR name was kept for the dealership in Plymouth Meeting (Porsche and Audi). I bought a new '01 S4 from them (from Tom McLewee who is now with Brandywine Porsche) and had a terrific experience. Subsequently bought a new '05 Audi A6 Avant for my wife after the dealership was sold. The transaction was ugly - there was a $750 loyalty rebate which I asked for after the sale (and presented a coupon for). They refused to pay it - saying that it was "included in the sale." The Sales Manager at that time is no longer with the dealership. Their general manager, Keith Shaw (a good guy), made good on the deal and issued the check. But, it left a bad taste and I've not gone back. That's why I'll stick with either Holbert's (Warrington) or Brandywine Porsche to do ANY work on my C4S.

Phil

4s

The CPO thing has really got me thinking. Why if porsches are made so well and are "bullet-proof" does everyone insist on getting a cpo?
I bought my car a couple of months ago and had a ppi and got it cpo. After driving it for a month or so the oil light came on (won't get back into that. read the other posts), dealer said porsches burn oil? Happened 2 more times until the dealer actually found the problem (worn valve guides is what they said) and replaced the entire engine (under warranty) Do valve guides just wear out after 700 miles?
Now what dealer is going to do a cpo or a ppi on a car that they are looking to sell and actually find and/or decide that the car needs a new engine or something major like that? Who would buy a car that just had the engine replaced if they could find a different car? They surely wouldn't get the same amount of money for it. And thus wouldn't make as much money on the sell if they did the work.
My feeling is that they will cpo just about anything no matter what the condition knowing that the car will be sold for top dollar and the new owner will be able to get it fixed under warranty. They get top dollar and the owner gets a different car than what they bought. Just my .02

blk on blk

I think you answered your own question there. People want CPO because they want the piece of mind that if the engine blows up they will have coverage just like you did on yours. I had a BMW 540 that I bought used and mandated it be CPO. It was teh best car I have ever owned, but 2 months into ownership it had all the engine bearings replaced. Warranty covered it, and I save something like 7k with parts and labor for that job. The car never had another problem in the 5 years I owned it. It was pretty bullet proof, but I still wanted some warranty backing. These are machines that most people drive pretty hard. They will break no matter how well made. It happens.

4s

My point was more to the fact that you just can't trust the dealer where your buying the car from regardless of any ppi or cpo that they do. You really need to have the car inspected by an indi that has no affiliation with where your buying it. Maybe then you could get the "real" facts on the car.
I don't believe the valves on my engine just wore out after the 700 or so miles I put on it. It must of been an issue before i bought it, but the dealer just didn't catch it? I don't think so. Not when the car was burning a quart of oil every 700 miles. They knew that if they replaced the engine they wouldn't get the price I paid for it and thus wouldn't make as much money.Someone has to pay for they're Newport Beach location on the water. Rents not cheap there.
The dealer doesn't care if the car breaks down a month after he sold it to you. He got his top dollar and you just end up using your warranty. The dealer doesn't pay for any warranty work. Thats covered by PCNA (right). The dealer has to pay on work they do on the car when they first buy it back and before they sell it.
So at the end your just betting on the fact a dealer didn't cut any corners on the cpo and ppi. And we all know how honest car dealers are,right?

nycebo

Spot on. The CPO is the comfort of mind that you'll have over the next two years in knowing that anything that was potentially hidden or unknown on the car can be resolved. Sometimes the dealer knows, sometimes he doesn't. But, I contend that any major engine problem will happen within those 2 years.

Anyway, not to digress....

FWIW, I wonder if an indy can even pick up some of the problems inside the engine. If you don't get a CPO, you're playing with fire unless you and the prior owner are lifelong buddies.

pl

there are some engine-brown stories on this forum, i read a few of them.
and every time it happened, there's no indication. such as "i backed out from my driveway, big white cloud, engine fried,", or " i was crusing on the high-way, big white cloud, engine fried". etc.
i don't think anyone could easier predicate those engine problems.

another question, would PCNA go after those dealership who CPO **** and cost PCNA worranty $$?

gravedgr

Considering the cost of a dealer PPI is fairly insignificant, why would you have it done by an independent? It would seem to me that if a dealer did a PPI and something turned up later (especially something the PPI should have caught), you have more leverage with PCNA should you choose to pursue that route.

Am I missing something? I can't imagine going outside my dealer network for anything but basic work (i.e. non-critical items), and only for cost.

Dutchie in NC

Really surprised that the carfax showed up clean... I was always under the impression that you could rely on a clean carfax... guess not!

How does carfax gets it's info and how come this didn't show up?

Vulture996

Crybaby

blk on blk

I see. That is more clear and makes perfect sense to me. You're right in that they would CPO the car, get top dollar, then charge the issues back to PCNA when it breaks. Honest car dealers? Yeah right.

woody-77

The stripper I gave a 20 to in Vegas was the best $20 I ever spent...but to each his own...

But yes, Rennlist is definately worth $20...

cab2u

Get this. I had my friend call the dealer interested in the car, with me on 3 way calling. Yesterday the manager in no uncertain terms said that they would never try and sell a car like this had he known the condition. When we called today, this other salesman was happy to give us information about the car STILL for sale. He did, however, say that he thinks that the front fender was repainted as a result of a very small accident, but he believes that was all that was repainted. What about the door, hood and bumper? When my friend asked if he looked over the car, he said that he had, and it was even in the showroom yesterday. Yea, it was in the showroom when I had them drive it in to look at the car. Every salesman there saw what was going on when I was there.

Vancouver83LTD

the thing is, from a business standpoint, I can't really blame them.
Yes it's terrible, and unscrupulkous and shady - but they can't really afford to lose that much on work, and THEN have the car discounted beyond that....
I bet most people here are businessmen and while it's more complicated than that they can see a bit of the dealership's point.

porschefan1972

I just signed up for rennlist by the recommendation of a friend of mine and I found this thread very odd. Both my friend and I both bought 911's from Tim Hoffman (although my friend bought the turbo s and I just got the basic 997 C2) and found him to be very helpfull. My wife recently took my new car for a drive and scratched the rims on the drivier's side and Tim was most helpful in getting the wheels repaired for me at no cost. There must be something that I'm missing. I'm heading over to Don Rosen to pick-up my wife's new car. I had to buy her one if I was allowed to get another,lol. I hope you all had a good weekend

Vancouver83LTD

Hello, Tim.