washington dc porsche

Have you guys ever sent oil samples to be tested at a laboratory?

Fred R. C4S

I would suggest that you always proceed with the latest information that's available. It's usually representative of the best thinking of the manufacturer at the time. No manufacturer is perfect, even the one I work for. However, we generally have reams of actual data from thousands of machines/engines operating in customer's hands as well as thousands of hours in the laboratory on which to base our recommendations. If WE discover a better method or recommendation, we pass it along to our dealers and customers. Why would I assume that an individual whose sole credential is that he has posted on the internet has more accurate DATA than the manufacturer?

It's a free world, and you can use any oil you chose. After all, it's your engine, your experiment.

Cheers,

LVDell

FYI...the newest TSB that superceded all previous approved engine oils by Porsche includes cars 1984-present has no mention anywhere of the 15W-50 oil or any 15W oil for that matter. The lowest weights approved are the 0W and 5W and the higherst weights are the 40 and 50. For me, I run 15W-50 in the summer months especially since I track the tar out of my car here in the Nevada desert. Also, my 996 (2000) has 15W-50 as the approved oil in the owners manual. SO go figure right? I would prefer the protection at higher temps with the 50 weight but we CANNOT get 5W-50 here in the states so 15W-50 is the ticket for hot months. I do however run 0W-40 in the winter months. So if you do the math I do 2 oil changes a year.

LVDell

Forgot to mention the TSB......1701 group 1 dated 1/2005

jetskied

I have been rebuilding hot rod engine myself for the past 10 years and can tell you that recomendations have changed over the years. When I was back in high school we were use to the 20-50 stuff for engines, but as we learned todays synthetics provisde a much better film and thus allows the use of thinner oils. They are also more tolerant to thermal break down and are fine for most uses even light track use that we put our cars through. I also do some work on boats and the reasoning behind using thick oils in boats is that the loads on a boat is more equivalent to pulling a trailer up a steep hill. Also consider the fact that a boat engine does have bigger clearances because the difference in thermal expansion when used in marine applications. All I haqve to say go look at a OE oil that was used in the BMW M3 as it was a pretty thick oil and notice the problems they had with some engine failures due to tight clearances. You can run 15-50 with no problems, but I would rather use a 5-50.

Tool Pants

Olive Nuts.

ohdavey6286

Dell: is that 15w-50 made by Mobil one? I live in Tampa FL and have a feeling that I need to change my oil weight.

seanmcr6

Chris996

http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html#m96
"
What oil should I use in my newer Porsche requiring a "Porsche approved" oil, like the M96 engine?
We do not recommend use of most of the Porsche "approved" oils in any aircooled engine, including the 84 and later engines up to and including the 993 that are recommended to run these approved oils.

In the search for a "Porsche approved" oil, a quick glance at various Porsche owners manuals for a Turbo and GT2 as late as 2004 showed a recommendation for an API SH or SJ motor oil, so my recommendation is to find an approved oil with at least an API SL rating - an API SH or SJ would be even better. Additionally, try to use a 5w40 rather than a 0w40, as the viscosity with the narrower spread will have a higher high temperature high shear viscosity and should protect critical engine parts better at the upper limits. You do not need a 0w over a 5w until cold start temperatures are under -25C. Do not run any 0w30, 5w30, or 10w30 oil in your Porsche, aircooled engines included!

Coupled with Google and armed with the "overview of engine oils approved by Porsche "Porsche approval list", including some oils that no longer have Porsche approval but were approved at some point, here are some suggestions for oils. Remember, we're looking for an API, SH, SJ, or at worse case, SL rating AND meeting the ACEA A3/B3 specification. Remember, the earlier the API specification, the more likely the oil will be to have higher anti-wear additives. One such oil is Castrol Syntec 5w40, which carries Porsche Approval and an API SL rating.

Shown below are some alternative suggestions for 5w40 viscosity oils that are not necessarily Porsche Approved, but are of excellent quality nonetheless. I have noted some of these oils meet Volkswagen's 505.01 specification for PD TDI engines, which is very rigorous and in my opinion, is a standard requiring additional protection so much so that Mobil formulated a special version of 5w40 in an API SJ that is specific to the 505.01 standard. If cost was no object and I was out of the warranty period, Motul 300V or Redline would be two obvious choices. Mobil 1 0w40 and Delvac 1 5w40 shown for reference only. HTHS values per published values by manufacturer. We have selected just a few to show:





Although Motul Specific 5w40 API SJ has been discontinued, I have run it in my newer VWs with excellent results and have enough oil stockpiled to last a few more years before I have to worry about choosing another oil meeting the 505.01 specification. It had the highest HTHS viscosity of any oil we ever found, min 4.8 to max 5.1 for a 5.w40. Used oil testing showed the best wear results of any oil we have ever run. It was replaced by another Motul Specific VW oil, which now carries a 502.00 approval as well as the 505.01 specification. Interesting point it is the ONLY oil on the market that is a 502.00 oil that meets 505.01 requirements. Currently, we have base-line results (additional results here) for the Motul VW approved 505.01 spec motor oil required by VW. We have been and are currently testing many VW and Porsche approved 5w40 oils and several other non-approved ones to see how they perform in street and track use.

Another popular oil highly recommended on the Rennlist forums has been the Mobil 1 Truck and Diesel 5w40 that was an excellent choice up until May 2008, when it was "reformulated" to meet the standards of new diesel engines and hence, is not an API SM/CJ-4 rated oil. As I have stated previously, I don't have the same faith in backwards compatibility of these reformulated products because there just is not the evidence that they will do the same job over the long haul. To this effect, many fleet service related publications still recommend using SL/CI-4 oils in vehicles without particulate emissions filters, leaving the new reformulated oils only for those engines absolutely requiring these low Zn/P oils.

Of additional interest is a German Porsche AG Technical Bulletin "2000 Motoroelfreigaben", showing 10w40 and thicker oils are also an acceptable viscosity, which was previously considered as being too thick for these newer, non-variocam equipped engines. If that is the case, Mobil 1 High-Mileage 10w40 or even Mobil 1 MX4T 10w40 may be excellent non-approved candidates, the latter motorcycle oil for track use mostly and not recommended for use with catalytic converter equipped vehicles. The only exception to this are the 2001 and later engines with Variocam, since this system is sensitive to oil viscosity and will throw a CEL if the wrong viscosity is used. Another suggestion is to mix 50/50 Mobil 1 0w40 and Mobil 1 MX4T 10w40, to yield a product in the proper viscosity that is recommended with levels of anti-wear additives as originally recommended by Porsche, with an API SH or SJ rating.
"

Michael-Dallas

Stick with the Porsche recommended oil, M1 0W-40, or what's on the latest Porsche approved list. In this great debate, everybody has a champion (or two) and mine are Doug Hillary and A.E. Haas. Both are knowledgeable on the subject and have done alot of legwork in collecting and analyzing data. I implore you read and digest their posts on bobistheoilguy.com and come to your own conclusion.

Here are just a few threads regarding Porsche where Doug chimes in regarding the M96 and oil:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=1663417
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...1807445&page=2
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=1455765
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=1578238
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...1095144&page=2
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...&Number=122854

The last link has Doug's comments regarding the Porsche's requirement a lubricant must meet in order for approval:

In addition, A.E. Haas has written a great article explaining oil that everybody can understand:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/cms/in...onth&Itemid=92

While I personally stick w/ the manufacturer's recommendation, Ali has personally put his words to the test on his exotic machinery, including his Enzo Ferrari, Ferrari 550 Maranello, and Lamborghini Murcielago. I believe he is also in constant communication with Ferrari North America with his findings:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...&Number=961484

If his article has caught the eye of Ferrari North America enough to get distributed within the organization, then it's probably a good read for everybody.

If you plan on deviating from the manufacturer's recommendation as well as the approved list, then I would certainly perform used oil analysis at every oil change and trend the history to determine the effectiveness and boundary of your oil selection.

/m

LVDell

Holy 4 1/2 year old thread Batman!

Michael-Dallas

Indeed.

And to put some value on my one-word reply, here's a more recent post from Doug Hillary:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...1926435&page=1

He makes other comments in that thread so be sure to read it!

/m

LVDell

I saw that as well in the last year or two and actually posted the video. It was from a Grand-Am or ALMS race where the race engineer was talking about the oil they use in the race cars 0W-40!

996Pilot

Well, after reading this, it all makes much better sense. This is the best explanation I've ever seen on oil weights. Prior to this, everything I read was either conflicting or clear as mud.

Audi Junkie

Any ACEA A3 oil is perfect for extended drains. If it doesn't say A3, but is 5w-40 that's fine too, it's simply a HD diesel oil and Euro cars are not their target. (Rotella, for example)

Don't overlook the Mobil 1 High Miles line. The 5w-30 and 10w-30 are thick. 10w-30 makes A3 and 5w-30 is just a whisker away at 3.3cP. A great winter oil. M1 0w-40 is a fine oil, but burns off fast and is unnecessarily expensive.

I'm using some dino and HD dinos for a few quick changes, since I just got the 2002 2.7 w/43k.

Here's a good resource....

http://sas-origin.onstreammedia.com/.../pc/index.html



I'll stop back later.

btw- I've done some UOAs in my VW APR 2.0T. I use Caterpillar, very inexpensive.