Engine Replacement IV
02-04-2006, 12:22 PM
#31
Nordschleife Master
Originally Posted by joes c4 cab
1/2 of me says they know they have a problem and are trying to keep me quiet - forbidding me to discuss any hypothetical settlement
02-04-2006, 12:59 PM
#32
Rennlist Member
I agree with Dell, just because you add a tongue-in-cheek "hypothetically" doesn't really change the fact you just blabbed to the group of people Porsche SPECIFICALLY doesnt want to know...
02-04-2006, 06:03 PM
#33
Three Wheelin'
From Joe's initial post, I didn't see anything that led me to believe that it was confidential. Frankly, I'd be pretty pleased that they even came back with a figure at all. I still think that if you feel you have been wrong, that you have legal recourse, and indeed have the money to back it, that you should go the legal route. At the very least, perhaps a formal lawyer's letter will get you the full amount for the engine replacement. Of course, it could very well **** them off too.
02-06-2006, 05:44 AM
#34
Originally Posted by lowside67
I agree with Dell, just because you add a tongue-in-cheek "hypothetically" doesn't really change the fact you just blabbed to the group of people Porsche SPECIFICALLY doesnt want to know...
02-06-2006, 07:20 AM
#35
In my letter to Porsche last Friday, I included pics of my engine's cracked sleeve, and the Post that Bob put together about the 84 non-RMS engine failures (thanks Bob).
Initially, I thought that the 996 engine rebuild was blown way out of proportion. Now I have to admit that I'm having second thoughts. I live in MD and there are three Porsche Dealers relatively near to me. Over the last 15 months I've visited all of the Dealerships to check out 996s that appealed to me that were advertised on their web sites. Of the seven cars that I checked out during that time frame, three of them had rebuilt engines. Now in the last month I contacted two guys who were selling their cars privately and both cars had rebuilt engines. My latest contact was with a poster on this forum, and based on his description he has a great car for sale but it does have a rebuilt engine.
Granted that my sample size is infinitesmial and I'm not going to do any extrapolations, but it does seem that there is a significant number of rebuilds in my area. Interestingly enough, the sales guys proudly volunteer the rebuild status of the Porsche engine as a selling point. The typical line goes something like even though the car had 28K miles on the odometer, the "new engine" only has 5K miles.
Initially, I thought that the 996 engine rebuild was blown way out of proportion. Now I have to admit that I'm having second thoughts. I live in MD and there are three Porsche Dealers relatively near to me. Over the last 15 months I've visited all of the Dealerships to check out 996s that appealed to me that were advertised on their web sites. Of the seven cars that I checked out during that time frame, three of them had rebuilt engines. Now in the last month I contacted two guys who were selling their cars privately and both cars had rebuilt engines. My latest contact was with a poster on this forum, and based on his description he has a great car for sale but it does have a rebuilt engine.
Granted that my sample size is infinitesmial and I'm not going to do any extrapolations, but it does seem that there is a significant number of rebuilds in my area. Interestingly enough, the sales guys proudly volunteer the rebuild status of the Porsche engine as a selling point. The typical line goes something like even though the car had 28K miles on the odometer, the "new engine" only has 5K miles.
02-07-2006, 06:10 PM
#36
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
That is very interesting. Sad and interesting.
I am still unable to find out if my car ever had an exchange prior to this failure. The dealership that serviced the car in Chicago is unwilling to tell me, and PCNA, if they found out, has not told me either. I may try and lean on them again - this engine could still be under warranty for all I know and they are trying to keep it quiet.
I am still unable to find out if my car ever had an exchange prior to this failure. The dealership that serviced the car in Chicago is unwilling to tell me, and PCNA, if they found out, has not told me either. I may try and lean on them again - this engine could still be under warranty for all I know and they are trying to keep it quiet.
02-07-2006, 07:10 PM
#37
8th Gear
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Take the money. Trust me, not only are they reading these posts, but they're only trying to be helpful. It's not a conspiracy. I'm sure there have been many engine failures, but holes don't end up in blocks from JDA (just driving along) or idling in the driveway... etc. etc. I hear it all the time, it gets ridiculous after awhile.
The reality is you don't know how the car was treated before you purchased it... these are sports cars without much torque. Most performance orientated drivers will be reving the engine alot, especially in the twisties where P cars shine.
Also, the car is out of warranty. Plain and simple. The warranty doesn't say, "as long as you don't drive it hard, it will be covered for an extra 20,000 miles or as long as you drive less that x miles, the warranty will be good for an extra 3 years".
Until all these "blown" engines are taken apart and scrutinized by an unbiased trained professional AND you could prove that Porsche ignored a problem that they were aware of, you wouldn't have 2 legs to stand on in a court of law.
The reality is you don't know how the car was treated before you purchased it... these are sports cars without much torque. Most performance orientated drivers will be reving the engine alot, especially in the twisties where P cars shine.
Also, the car is out of warranty. Plain and simple. The warranty doesn't say, "as long as you don't drive it hard, it will be covered for an extra 20,000 miles or as long as you drive less that x miles, the warranty will be good for an extra 3 years".
Until all these "blown" engines are taken apart and scrutinized by an unbiased trained professional AND you could prove that Porsche ignored a problem that they were aware of, you wouldn't have 2 legs to stand on in a court of law.
02-07-2006, 07:41 PM
#38
Nordschleife Master
Originally Posted by joes c4 cab
That is very interesting. Sad and interesting.
I am still unable to find out if my car ever had an exchange prior to this failure. The dealership that serviced the car in Chicago is unwilling to tell me, and PCNA, if they found out, has not told me either. I may try and lean on them again - this engine could still be under warranty for all I know and they are trying to keep it quiet.
I am still unable to find out if my car ever had an exchange prior to this failure. The dealership that serviced the car in Chicago is unwilling to tell me, and PCNA, if they found out, has not told me either. I may try and lean on them again - this engine could still be under warranty for all I know and they are trying to keep it quiet.
02-07-2006, 08:25 PM
#39
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seems to me that there are too many blown engines o fthe 996 variety while they are sports cars
if the same thing keeps happening like clock work over and over and over etc. there is some wrong
for instance the 1986-87 maxima started catching fire i know of several people who's cars caught on fire one of which was mine years later ther's a recall many people have since bought other cars wrote their letters made their complaints and moved on however misssing the recall and those fire caught cars are in the junk yard. i say talk to an att. some one needs to compile a list of the blown engines it will take some doing but it can be done let's face it may of us are flippant because our cars are ok but what if it were you or i wouldn't we want some justice or atleast some closure it a defect or no don't we all 996ers deserve to know my $0.02 i've been there and it's not a good feeling even with a car worth 15 to 20k imagine one worth 40 or 50k
if the same thing keeps happening like clock work over and over and over etc. there is some wrong
for instance the 1986-87 maxima started catching fire i know of several people who's cars caught on fire one of which was mine years later ther's a recall many people have since bought other cars wrote their letters made their complaints and moved on however misssing the recall and those fire caught cars are in the junk yard. i say talk to an att. some one needs to compile a list of the blown engines it will take some doing but it can be done let's face it may of us are flippant because our cars are ok but what if it were you or i wouldn't we want some justice or atleast some closure it a defect or no don't we all 996ers deserve to know my $0.02 i've been there and it's not a good feeling even with a car worth 15 to 20k imagine one worth 40 or 50k
02-07-2006, 08:36 PM
#40
Nordschleife Master
2fas4u.....did you even read the entire thread (as well as parts 1-3)??? It is the very statements you (and others) make about "blown engines....happening like clock work over and over and over etc" that have no basis for support. Hack into the PCNA computers, compile the entire list of blown engines versus the number of 996's sold and you will find out very quickly that the number is EXTREMELY small. As has been highlighted ad nauseum, two points you failed to read (or just glossed over)....(1)this "problem" is happening to individuals for the most part that are buying used (multiple overs before them) and can't verify the treatment of it a priori. (2) asking for warranty work WELL beyond the period is not someting that auto manufacturers will never agree to since they are in the business to make money and not guarantee you car for as long as you deem is should.
02-07-2006, 08:36 PM
#41
Also, the car is out of warranty. Plain and simple. The warranty doesn't say, "as long as you don't drive it hard, it will be covered for an extra 20,000 miles or as long as you drive less that x miles, the warranty will be good for an extra 3 years".
I'll need the help of the lawyers on this Board, but there's also an implied warranty. If you took the case to court and could prove that the blown engine was cause by a manufacturing defect, then I would imagine that Porsche would still be culpable even though the warranty expired. Granted that it may be problematical to prove that there is a design defect and that defect caused the engine to fail, but I also would imagine that Porsche would do everything in their power to settle the case before it went to court. The last thing Porsche would want is to have a 60 minutes crew interviewing Porsche owners whose engines blew or had multiple RMS leaks.
I'll need the help of the lawyers on this Board, but there's also an implied warranty. If you took the case to court and could prove that the blown engine was cause by a manufacturing defect, then I would imagine that Porsche would still be culpable even though the warranty expired. Granted that it may be problematical to prove that there is a design defect and that defect caused the engine to fail, but I also would imagine that Porsche would do everything in their power to settle the case before it went to court. The last thing Porsche would want is to have a 60 minutes crew interviewing Porsche owners whose engines blew or had multiple RMS leaks.
02-07-2006, 08:40 PM
#42
Nordschleife Master
Doesn't the warranty state something to the effect that "the car is warranted for 4yr/50K miles and Porsche will repair any problems that are the result of DEFECT, etc. within that period"???
Wouldn't you think the problem would come to the forefront in that reasonable amount of time?
Wouldn't you think the problem would come to the forefront in that reasonable amount of time?
02-07-2006, 10:53 PM
#43
Doesn't the warranty state something to the effect that "the car is warranted for 4yr/50K miles and Porsche will repair any problems that are the result of DEFECT, etc. within that period"???
If driven for 50K miles, I would expect that problems due to design defects would occur, but how many Porsches reach 50K miles after four years? Mid 20s would be the average for most four year old 996s that I've encountered.
If driven for 50K miles, I would expect that problems due to design defects would occur, but how many Porsches reach 50K miles after four years? Mid 20s would be the average for most four year old 996s that I've encountered.
02-08-2006, 12:02 AM
#44
Nordschleife Master
Then maybe therin lies the problem. I have 60K on mine and it just turned 6 years old 3 weeks ago. These are no Ferarri's relegated to garage duty, they are Porsche's. Now go drive the damn thing!
