Strut Tower Braces
11-09-2002, 11:37 AM
#17
Intermediate
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Miami
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
John,
I guess you are only looking at the stock so called tower brace or the Das sport made pictured earlier under this topic. None of the braces tie the shock towers, they basically use the support from the firewall. For this raeson especially if you have a cabrio or using your car at the track it is a good idea to tie the upper strut towers to gain stiffer ride, belive me after I install the tower brace on my car (cabrio) it rides with much less rattle,... you can feel the difference. At the same time I never take my car to track, I don't think cabrio and the track is a good combination anyway.
Regards,
Bill Karan
I guess you are only looking at the stock so called tower brace or the Das sport made pictured earlier under this topic. None of the braces tie the shock towers, they basically use the support from the firewall. For this raeson especially if you have a cabrio or using your car at the track it is a good idea to tie the upper strut towers to gain stiffer ride, belive me after I install the tower brace on my car (cabrio) it rides with much less rattle,... you can feel the difference. At the same time I never take my car to track, I don't think cabrio and the track is a good combination anyway.
Regards,
Bill Karan
11-09-2002, 02:00 PM
#18
Keeper of the Truth
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
[quote]Originally posted by BKaran:
<strong>When we discuss about car racing I really don't know how much other people know about the issue but I know one thing "stiffer is better" for any car on the race track and I know tower brace gives extra strenght to the front. Especially older model Porsche. If you believe it doesn't, you are doing the right thing with not using it.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Please stick to the subject. I have a 993 which, DOES have a factory strut tower brace I added myself. It made quite a difference. Here, we are talking of the 996 which, does NOT benefit from an additional brace. If you have one on yours and it makes you feel good about the money you wasted on it, good for you. But, don't try to justify it to us.
<strong>When we discuss about car racing I really don't know how much other people know about the issue but I know one thing "stiffer is better" for any car on the race track and I know tower brace gives extra strenght to the front. Especially older model Porsche. If you believe it doesn't, you are doing the right thing with not using it.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Please stick to the subject. I have a 993 which, DOES have a factory strut tower brace I added myself. It made quite a difference. Here, we are talking of the 996 which, does NOT benefit from an additional brace. If you have one on yours and it makes you feel good about the money you wasted on it, good for you. But, don't try to justify it to us.
11-09-2002, 07:29 PM
#19
Racer
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 423
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hello again Bill,
I guess I wasn't clear in my post. I was not looking at or talking about the DAS sport brace or any particular 996 brace, I was trying to correct your statement that a strut brace "eliminates the movement of the rubber part". The strut towers are part of the bodyshell, on most cars strut braces attach to the shell at the points the struts attach, i.e. at the top of the towers. What they do not do is make any connection to the strut itself or bypass in any way the rubber isolation between the strut and its mounting bracket. A brace can certainly help stiffen the shell (of course how much it helps depends on how stiff the shell is to begin with, which in the case of the 996 is much stiffer than previous models). This stiffening is a good thing, but it does nothing to remove the movement that occurs at the top of the strut as the rubber compresses, so however rigid your strut brace there will remain a lot of movement of the strut under load unless/until you fit monoball top mounts. No offence intended by any of this, just wanting to correct that point.
I guess I wasn't clear in my post. I was not looking at or talking about the DAS sport brace or any particular 996 brace, I was trying to correct your statement that a strut brace "eliminates the movement of the rubber part". The strut towers are part of the bodyshell, on most cars strut braces attach to the shell at the points the struts attach, i.e. at the top of the towers. What they do not do is make any connection to the strut itself or bypass in any way the rubber isolation between the strut and its mounting bracket. A brace can certainly help stiffen the shell (of course how much it helps depends on how stiff the shell is to begin with, which in the case of the 996 is much stiffer than previous models). This stiffening is a good thing, but it does nothing to remove the movement that occurs at the top of the strut as the rubber compresses, so however rigid your strut brace there will remain a lot of movement of the strut under load unless/until you fit monoball top mounts. No offence intended by any of this, just wanting to correct that point.
11-10-2002, 11:47 PM
#20
Three Wheelin'
Sloth, any details ont he differences? IS it all in the tub or is it bolt on parts? I know the cage in my car, which bolt to the rear struts as well as the four front through chassis points made a huge difference in stiffness on my 2003 (new stiffer body). I wonder if a front strut brace or K bracke might not hurt?
11-11-2002, 09:58 AM
#21
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
[quote]Originally posted by Ed Newman:
<strong>Sloth, any details ont he differences? IS it all in the tub or is it bolt on parts? I know the cage in my car, which bolt to the rear struts as well as the four front through chassis points made a huge difference in stiffness on my 2003 (new stiffer body). I wonder if a front strut brace or K bracke might not hurt?</strong><hr></blockquote>
The extra reinforcement in the C4's and turbo is to support the front differential, the extra support in the GT3 is to strengthen the front end for race purposes. From what I understand it is in the tub, though I am ot 100% on that point. There was an article a few months back in Excellence, Panorama, or Christophorous that spoke of the differences between the cars. Perhaps someone recalls the article and could verify or scan.
<strong>Sloth, any details ont he differences? IS it all in the tub or is it bolt on parts? I know the cage in my car, which bolt to the rear struts as well as the four front through chassis points made a huge difference in stiffness on my 2003 (new stiffer body). I wonder if a front strut brace or K bracke might not hurt?</strong><hr></blockquote>
The extra reinforcement in the C4's and turbo is to support the front differential, the extra support in the GT3 is to strengthen the front end for race purposes. From what I understand it is in the tub, though I am ot 100% on that point. There was an article a few months back in Excellence, Panorama, or Christophorous that spoke of the differences between the cars. Perhaps someone recalls the article and could verify or scan.
11-11-2002, 10:17 AM
#22
Once in a while professional race teams make the car less stiff to attain better lap time under certain conditions. I'm not sure stiffness is always the best attribute for faster lap time.
My stock 2000 996 with US M030 ran fine on the track and I don't need a brace. As a matter of fact I don't need any thing other than race pads and tires and am extremely happy with the car. I'm the fastest guy out there but faster enough for me to have fun.
However, if you want to get the best lap time you can manage out of the car, brace it, do some objective measures and see if it make any difference. Take it out if it does not make you and your car go faster because it add weight.
Let us know the differences.
My stock 2000 996 with US M030 ran fine on the track and I don't need a brace. As a matter of fact I don't need any thing other than race pads and tires and am extremely happy with the car. I'm the fastest guy out there but faster enough for me to have fun.
However, if you want to get the best lap time you can manage out of the car, brace it, do some objective measures and see if it make any difference. Take it out if it does not make you and your car go faster because it add weight.
Let us know the differences.
11-11-2002, 11:57 AM
#23
Intermediate
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Miami
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Viken
First of all I didn't waste my money, if I wanted to waste it it is my business and I really don't need your input.
Second I am happy with tower brace, it works to damn good since my car is a cabrio (can be less on coupe).
Third I believe it is better to try and see if the mod works on the car than reach a decision.
I don't think we can reach a point that everyone going to be agree, but my first-hand experience with the brace was a good one and recommend to the other list members(especially cabrio owners) Nothing further..
Regards,
Bill Karan
First of all I didn't waste my money, if I wanted to waste it it is my business and I really don't need your input.
Second I am happy with tower brace, it works to damn good since my car is a cabrio (can be less on coupe).
Third I believe it is better to try and see if the mod works on the car than reach a decision.
I don't think we can reach a point that everyone going to be agree, but my first-hand experience with the brace was a good one and recommend to the other list members(especially cabrio owners) Nothing further..
Regards,
Bill Karan
11-12-2002, 12:08 AM
#24
Burning Brakes
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 1,163
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
[quote]Originally posted by Viken:
<strong>Here, we are talking of the 996 which, does NOT benefit from an additional brace. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Please note as per Jeff's picture above, that all 996's including the TT, GT2, and GT3 have a factory installed struct brace, so the PAG engineers must see some benefit to having one. In fact, all models use the same exact bars, part # 996-504-233-00 and 234-00.
The DAS-Sport bar is beefier than the OEM and it is of one piece construction so the two strut towers are tied together through the bar. The OEM bars are two separate pieces that tie only into the firewall but make no connection between the two towers. Not sure how important this is but thought it was worth the clarification.
Karl
<strong>Here, we are talking of the 996 which, does NOT benefit from an additional brace. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Please note as per Jeff's picture above, that all 996's including the TT, GT2, and GT3 have a factory installed struct brace, so the PAG engineers must see some benefit to having one. In fact, all models use the same exact bars, part # 996-504-233-00 and 234-00.
The DAS-Sport bar is beefier than the OEM and it is of one piece construction so the two strut towers are tied together through the bar. The OEM bars are two separate pieces that tie only into the firewall but make no connection between the two towers. Not sure how important this is but thought it was worth the clarification.
Karl
