Do I really want ceramic composite brakes?
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 285
Likes: 0
Do I really want ceramic composite brakes?
I've been lucky enough to get the number one slot now at two dealers with July GT3 allocations. Assuming that both are honest and I get first right of refusal on each car, I'd have a difficult time deciding between the two. The only substantive difference between the two cars is that one was ordered with the ceramic brake option.
I can see how, on a race car, it might make sense. But, having seen what happens to cars that are tracked frequently (and having bought a race car specifically for this purpose), the GT3 will be tracked sparingly. So, the only reasons that I can think of to favor the car with ceramic brakes are (1) they're cool and (2) they *might* increase resale value down the line.
For me, cool is not reason enough to pay $8K for brakes (although it's a close one
). So, does anyone have a feel for the impact on resale value? In some sense, maybe they increase the appeal of the car to a potential buyer down the road? And is there any other reason to buy the car with ceramic brakes that I've overlooked?
I can see how, on a race car, it might make sense. But, having seen what happens to cars that are tracked frequently (and having bought a race car specifically for this purpose), the GT3 will be tracked sparingly. So, the only reasons that I can think of to favor the car with ceramic brakes are (1) they're cool and (2) they *might* increase resale value down the line.
For me, cool is not reason enough to pay $8K for brakes (although it's a close one
). So, does anyone have a feel for the impact on resale value? In some sense, maybe they increase the appeal of the car to a potential buyer down the road? And is there any other reason to buy the car with ceramic brakes that I've overlooked?
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 285
Likes: 0
Thanks for the reply. No doubt PCCB is the best system offered by Porsche (and likely, any manufacturer) at this time.
I understand that the PCCB system reduces unsprung weight and also offers better heat dissipation. Definitely worthy attributes for the track. But, I'm not sure that we'd notice any appreciable performance benefit on the street. Apparently the life of the pads/rotors is longer. So there is definitely a benefit there.
Just curious, what was your motivation for ordering them? Maybe knowing that would help me to make a more informed decision?
I understand that the PCCB system reduces unsprung weight and also offers better heat dissipation. Definitely worthy attributes for the track. But, I'm not sure that we'd notice any appreciable performance benefit on the street. Apparently the life of the pads/rotors is longer. So there is definitely a benefit there.
Just curious, what was your motivation for ordering them? Maybe knowing that would help me to make a more informed decision?
Addict
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,761
Likes: 1
From: California
If you look at the popularity of the "big reds" and all the kits, paints, conversions, etc to duplicate the red look, I am happy they came standard on my 993 C4S.
I think the ceramics will follow as stopping is more important than accelerating. Plus, IMHO, when you are paying $100K+ for a vehicle, why not splurge for the kick *** brakes?
I think the ceramics will follow as stopping is more important than accelerating. Plus, IMHO, when you are paying $100K+ for a vehicle, why not splurge for the kick *** brakes?
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 285
Likes: 0
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by adscab911:
<strong>Plus, IMHO, when you are paying $100K+ for a vehicle, why not splurge for the kick *** brakes?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Good points! Particularly the last one. Sometimes it is hard to turn off the internal calculator. But, if you're spending 100K on a car, that calculator is pretty meaningless...
<strong>Plus, IMHO, when you are paying $100K+ for a vehicle, why not splurge for the kick *** brakes?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Good points! Particularly the last one. Sometimes it is hard to turn off the internal calculator. But, if you're spending 100K on a car, that calculator is pretty meaningless...
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,048
Likes: 1
From: Indianapolis
Donn,
I presume you've seen posts on the other side of the issue, such as those on the rennteam list:
<a href="http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=996&Number=9950&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=31& fpart=1" target="_blank">http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=996&Number=9950&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=31& fpart=1</a>
Personally, not too sure I'd do them, even if I was planning on tracking the car much of the time..
I presume you've seen posts on the other side of the issue, such as those on the rennteam list:
<a href="http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=996&Number=9950&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=31& fpart=1" target="_blank">http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=996&Number=9950&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=31& fpart=1</a>
Personally, not too sure I'd do them, even if I was planning on tracking the car much of the time..
Trending Topics
Rennlist Stories
The Best Porsche Posts for Porsche Enthusiasts
Every Era of 911 Owner Explained in One Sentence
Verdad Gallardo
Thinking of Buying a Porsche? Do These 10 Things First
Joe Kucinski
Pixar Pals Turned Into 1-of-1 Porsches!
Michael S. Palmer
Theon Goes Full Carbon Fiber With Stunning New Build
Verdad Gallardo
Genius Porsche-Themed Gifts That'll Make Any Dad or Grad Smile
Joe Kucinski
10 Used Porsches Are Selling for Way Too Cheap
Joe Kucinski
Tuner Is Converting Porsche 911s Into Shooting Brakes
Verdad Gallardo
This Coachbuilt Creation Is A Modern Take on the Legendary Porsche 917
Verdad Gallardo
Is This Convertible Cayenne A Steal, Or A Returnless Investment?
Verdad Gallardo
Intermediate
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
From: MI.,USA
No one knows how much better PCCB will be over the first generation PCCB i.e., GT2, Turbo. However, they (GT3) will be better and much more than iron brakes for street use. Porsche will not stand behind them if used on the track like any other builder.
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,163
Likes: 0
From: Washington, DC
Donn,
Like you, I have a track car, so my GT3 will also be used 99% for street duty. I opted not to get the PCCB brakes for the following reasons:
- biggest advantage is less unsprung weight, which I'll never really feel in most street driving situations
- they don't stop the car any faster
- you can't get aftermarket pads for them
- they are very expensive to maitain if they don't last the claimed 100K miles. And there are many early buyers whose brakes didn't last that long
- the standard Big Reds are awesome brakes. I converted my 996 to them and ran them on the track for 3 years with no problems
In the final analysis, I didn't see the value in spending another $8K. As for resales, my experience is while some options may make the car more desirable to a potential buyer, you almost never see any $ benefit by loading up for options.
My 1999 $90K sticker 996 was not worth much more than a 1999 $70K sticker 996 when I sold it, despite all the options.
Karl
Like you, I have a track car, so my GT3 will also be used 99% for street duty. I opted not to get the PCCB brakes for the following reasons:
- biggest advantage is less unsprung weight, which I'll never really feel in most street driving situations
- they don't stop the car any faster
- you can't get aftermarket pads for them
- they are very expensive to maitain if they don't last the claimed 100K miles. And there are many early buyers whose brakes didn't last that long
- the standard Big Reds are awesome brakes. I converted my 996 to them and ran them on the track for 3 years with no problems
In the final analysis, I didn't see the value in spending another $8K. As for resales, my experience is while some options may make the car more desirable to a potential buyer, you almost never see any $ benefit by loading up for options.
My 1999 $90K sticker 996 was not worth much more than a 1999 $70K sticker 996 when I sold it, despite all the options.
Karl
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 285
Likes: 0
Thanks Karl. Your thoughts pretty much confirm what I've been able to put together over the last few days. So, let's hope the dealer with the non PCCB car is honest and really will keep me at the number 1 spot on his list.
On that note, at what point can you actually lock the dealer into selling you the vehicle. It seems like they could, if they want, just ignore my deposit and sell to another individual and I couldn't do much about it... But, a contract of sorts (if it can be done) would provide a bit more assurance. For example, can I enter into a sales contract, with the final amount due upon receipt? This will be my first Porsche, so I really have no idea how the dealers operate.
Thanks again for your assistance.
On that note, at what point can you actually lock the dealer into selling you the vehicle. It seems like they could, if they want, just ignore my deposit and sell to another individual and I couldn't do much about it... But, a contract of sorts (if it can be done) would provide a bit more assurance. For example, can I enter into a sales contract, with the final amount due upon receipt? This will be my first Porsche, so I really have no idea how the dealers operate.
Thanks again for your assistance.
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,163
Likes: 0
From: Washington, DC
As soon as the car is ordered, the dealer should be able to produce a production order with your name on it. That guarantees you the car but not the price. Your idea of getting a sales order is a good one. Just have the dealer spec the car on an order form. Since the 2004 order guides are out, they should be able to give you the exact price. If not, they call always write MSRP.
Good luck.
Karl
Good luck.
Karl
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,086
Likes: 0
From: FL Space Coast
There is a chance that PMNA will have track pads for the PCCB brakes. I was in Sebring over the Memorial Day weekend and it turns out that Porsche was finishing up some pre-LeMans testing that Friday. I ran into Roland Kussmaul, Alwin Springer, Jorg Bergmeister, Sascha Massen and some other folks from Porsche in a restaurant and interrupted their dinner to ask some questions about the GT3 - wouldn't you? It's possible they were telling me that I should use track pads rather than street pads on the conventional brakes but I was asking about PCCB on the track. I've written Mr. Springer asking for clarification which I'll post when I receive it.
Even with track pads I'm still not sure I'd want the PPCB brakes on the track as I don't want to know what rotors cost. Street PCCB pads are 300 Euros/set for fronts and 295 Euros/set for rears according to Gert.
It's possible they were telling me that I should use track pads rather than street pads on the conventional brakes but I was asking about PCCB on the track. I've written Mr. Springer asking for clarification which I'll post when I receive it.Even with track pads I'm still not sure I'd want the PPCB brakes on the track as I don't want to know what rotors cost. Street PCCB pads are 300 Euros/set for fronts and 295 Euros/set for rears according to Gert.
