Chicago996

Ok, I was thinking about how a C2 would compare to the uber-Bimmers. From what I have read on the board, my understanding is that a C2 will have a very tough time hanging with the C4S on the track but might on the streets (on dry days). So that's why I didn't add C4S to the list.

How does a C2 stack up on the track with the aforementioned Bimmers? Anyone driven all 3 to give some interesting perspectives?

<img src="graemlins/wave.gif" border="0" alt="[byebye]" />
'01 AS C2

03-turbo911

I've owned an M5 a couple of years ago and I've driven an M3 with SMGII. The simple fact is that the C2 will blow them both out of the water. The driving experiance is so vastly superior to the Bimmers that I wouldn't even waste my time on trying them out. 400 horses couldn't make me keep the car for more then 8 months and after various problems with the car I sold it at a considerable loss. I liked the M3 more then the M5 but if I had a choise, I'd go for the Porsche everytime

Chicago996

Thanks for the super-quick reply. I got the "inspiration" to ask this question here when I was surfing roadfly.org earlier this afternoon. Let me cut and paste from one of the threads in their M5 section entitled "A new ///M5 or a new Carrera 4S?", the answer from someone was "c4s will not run circles around M5 on a track,it wil depend on driver.M5 driven properly hangs around most cars

c4s vs M5 in straight line,c4s will get beat.I have done this many times with my brother n law 03 c4s.He said the M5 pulls harder straight line acceleration,and is a faster car.

c4s nice car

I went with the M5,less of them also."

That got me wondering about the validity of his claim and in general about 996 vs. M cars.

Orangemarlin

I still think this is apples vs. oranges type of thing. But,

M5 vs. C2...The M5 is heavier, bigger. But it is one amazing sedan in terms of raw speed and handling. And the M5 runs just a shade over 70 grand fully loaded, leather everywhere. That isn't going to happen with a C2. The M5 is probably the best car in the world for doing it all. You can run autocross, rallies, pick up groceries, and carry 3 of your buds to the ball game. Just isn't going to happen with the C2. Apples vs. oranges. And as for taking a hit on the resale, sorry, but that isn't true. I sold my 2 year old, 5000 mile M5 for the price I paid (less taxes). Never had one problem with the car.

C2 vs. M3. A lot of what I said for the M5 is the same here. But the C2 probably exceeds the M3 in performance.

These three cars are so different, you really have to choose one based on your own needs. I think there is no "blowing away" of one over the other. They all handle equivalently, with nice oversteer, have similar straight line stats, and quality. My preference would be comparing the two cars to the 996tt. Then you really have to make a choice.

03-turbo911

The carrera will run circles around the track against the M5. Te problem with the M5 is the brakes that fade so much plus the fact that it's a heavy sedan that won't be as agile as a carrea. As for drag racing, I've been in one against a well driven C2, we were running neck to neck with my M5's nose slightly ahead. I ran against another M5 about a month ago in my targa and I was ahead by about a couple of cars length

NTI 911E

I've driven my dad's M5 and a friend's M3 extensively, and driven three 996 models for comparison (00 C4, 02 C2, 02 C4 Cab - all 6sp). The M5 is certainly the fastest-feeling of the group. The 996s feel faster than the M3.

The M5 is crazy fast, but to me, it's boring. It's a very fast luxury car. There's only so many times you can slam on the gas, spin the wheels, and accelerate 0-100 before you get arrested or bored. It is extremely capable in the corners as well but it is not that much _fun_ in the corners. It's not that it doesn't handle well, it does. It's just not very involving. It is extremely capable and doesn't require much of the driver to go around corners at obscene speeds.

The M3 is much sportier and the one I would choose of the two BMWs. Its reduced weight and smaller size give it a more enjoyable personality in the corners, while in reality it is the same or only slightly better in the corners than the M5.

Overall, the 996 wins my vote. It involves the driver in a way that lets you know, "This is a sports car." The other two are sports sedans. By far, they feel much more planted, more stuck to the road, more confident around corners, and just have a sportier, lighter feel (as they should have). The thing that kept coming to my mind each time I drove one of the 996s was the feeling that the car "drove on rails." That's as best I can describe it. The P-cars just felt like they stuck like glue. I drove the hell out of them and never squealed a tire. This is not the case in the BMWs.

My dad originally wanted a 996 but my mom wouldn't let him have it (he already has a '73 911 in the garage - no more P-cars!) so he "settled" for the M5. He still says he'd rather have the 996, despite the gobs of torque and super-luxury feel of the M5.

With any of the three, you're getting a spectacular car. There isn't really a "right" answer as to which is best. It all depends on your personal desires.

Spie

Interesting thread. I currently own an '02 M5 and have just ordered a manual C4 for April delivery. All I can say is that the M5 is a quite staggering performer although I feel it's steering is severely lacking in feedback. Sure handles well for a big lad though

Carlos from Spain

All three are great cars but each in his catergory and they are my favorite in each of their class, none is better than the other since they serve different purposes.

That said, if we are only comparing wich would be the fastest on the streets or pull the fastest lap times in the track the awnser is clear cut (driver factor aside):

1º 996 C2/C4
2º E46-M3
3º E39-M5

ckl93

You guys need to get "Need for Speed:Hot Pursuit2"
I this computer game, you can race a 996 turbo against an M5 or you can race a bunch of other exotic cars I love the Carrera GT!

Chicago996

Nice feedback guys!

Orangemarlin: A'02 996 GT2 AND a '03 996 Turbo!! Lady luck sure smiled on thee Comparing the ///M cars to the 996 TT isn't really fair. Either of your cars is in a league or two or three above these

02-targa911: Its always great to hear that P-cars rock especially coming from someone who has BTDT!

nickdtm: Nick, was your friend's M3 SMG equipped? If so, what did you think about it?

Carlos: I have downloaded your video of going about 175 mph on the autostrada (sp?) and sent your link to several of my buddies. Our consensus: you are crazy AND you rock <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />


ckl93: I have NFS: Porsche Unleashed but my wife has taken over my computer and taken off my steering wheels/pedals bcuz they "interfere" with her typing. <img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" /> Ahhhh, the joys of marital life <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" />

NTI 911E

My friend's car was a 6-speed. Haven't been able to try out a SMG yet.

Stem

Have an 02 C2, and a 00 M-5. The C2, now that I'm learning how to drive it better, is now starting to lap slightly faster then the M-5 at Watkins Glen(2:20-2:25 lap times are my averages in both). C2 is stock with factory 030 sport suspension, 18" wheels, PSM, small fixed turbo spoiler and Tiptronic.

The M-5 has the six speed, and brake duct kit(BMW) and floating rotors added to stop the brake fade (it does). The rest is straight stock..

The M-5 is faster on the back straight (145 vs 135), and it will accelerate faster. The C2 is much better around the corners (lower weight= higher entry and exit speeds).

Both are great to drive and both have their strong points, as you would expect from a luxury sedan that has been optimized for the track, and a race car that can be comfortably driven on the street!!!!

Now, if I go on a trip, the M-5 is the way to go!! If I go to the track..... The C2 wins hands down!!! However, both can do either well!!

There is a Dr. from NYC who has a new M-3 and he can get me every time. I think he has done some suspension work, and he runs track tires. It's pretty fast. Stays with the other C2's with track tires. Both seem to about the same. The M-3 is probably the most bang for the $$$, even with some suspension work.

As I have said before, "It's best to have both!!", with an M-3 on the side!

LSM

I owned an M5 for 6 months and have driven many M3's. I now own a 2002 996 coupe.No offense to you tip guys, but to be fair, All cars I have driven were 6 speeds. The 996 tip IMO is much slower than the 6 speed. Anyway, the M5 felt like a rocket. The torque was crazy and the car really loved the highway. It is a heavy car though and did not handle that well, the back end loved to come out on turns. It is the best sport sedan around and if you need for doors you would be hard pressed to get much better. The M3 feels quite a bit slower than the 996 and never feels quite right on turns. The 996 is faster at all speeds, handles better and is simply much more fun to drive than the M3. The 996 is the best car I have ever owned. I regularly roast M3's and I beleive the car is just as fast as an M5.

Stem

While I have to say the Tip isn't that bad... in fact, I kinda of like it (for what it is), I would rather have 6 speeds to work with, in the Tip, then the 5 it offers.

What I'm working on with the Tip is braking with the left foot deeper into the corners. May turn out to much more controllable (every time), then heal and toe! Hard to miss a shift!!