RoW030 vs X74 vs PSS9
12-26-2007, 03:03 PM
#46
Rennlist Member
People,
Is there a better place to pick up a set of GT3 Sways and drop links than carnewal from Belgium?
PSS9s are coming on Friday and my mechanic, who used to swap/replace them at the race tracks, gave me a great price for install and alignment.
Now, I need sways and links...
TIA
Is there a better place to pick up a set of GT3 Sways and drop links than carnewal from Belgium?
PSS9s are coming on Friday and my mechanic, who used to swap/replace them at the race tracks, gave me a great price for install and alignment.
Now, I need sways and links...
TIA
12-26-2007, 03:41 PM
#48
Rennlist Member
Thanks Tim. You are the best!!
Here are the part numbers for the GT3 sway bars and hardware. (Thanks to Paul 996)
Front:
Stabiliser: 996 343 701 90
Stabiliser mounting (bushing): 996 343 792 16 (need 2)
Clip (metal piece that holds bushing): 996 343 777 01 (need 2)
Rear:
Stabiliser: 996 333 701 90
Stabiliser mounting: 996 333 792 21 (need 2)
Clip/Clamp : 996 333 777 01 (need 2)
New adjustable front drop links are needed (since the stock units don't fit anymore) and the rears are optional unless you wish to corner balance the car and take out any pre-load. Send me a PM if your are interested in some front drop links. I know a guy that sources them himself.
Last thing. Just learned from my dealer that you can re-use your existing Clips that hold the rubber bushings.
Here are the part numbers for the GT3 sway bars and hardware. (Thanks to Paul 996)
Front:
Stabiliser: 996 343 701 90
Stabiliser mounting (bushing): 996 343 792 16 (need 2)
Clip (metal piece that holds bushing): 996 343 777 01 (need 2)
Rear:
Stabiliser: 996 333 701 90
Stabiliser mounting: 996 333 792 21 (need 2)
Clip/Clamp : 996 333 777 01 (need 2)
New adjustable front drop links are needed (since the stock units don't fit anymore) and the rears are optional unless you wish to corner balance the car and take out any pre-load. Send me a PM if your are interested in some front drop links. I know a guy that sources them himself.
Last thing. Just learned from my dealer that you can re-use your existing Clips that hold the rubber bushings.
Last edited by chsu74; 12-26-2007 at 06:18 PM. Reason: found part numbers
12-27-2007, 03:06 PM
#49
Racer
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Actually, there isn't that much of a difference between the 2. The only structural difference is in the front as the GT3 is on a C4 chassis instead of a C2. The structure is boxed between the front strut towers. There is absolutely no change in the rear structure between a C2, C4 or GT3. Only the 2nd generation 996 GT3s (03+ ROW or 04+ US) are built on C4 chassis. The 1st gen 996 GT3 (99-00 ROW) was actually built on the C2 chassis as at its inception, there was no C4 chassis. Hence why the 1st gen GT3 was so much lighter.
Here are all the suspension differences:
1. Different front spindles/uprights/hats. Contrary to common myth, they are not the same as a Turbo/C4/C4S. They are only common to the GT2 and GT3. The primary reason for the change is the different position of the brake mounting points to facilitate mounting the larger brakes from the Turbo. It is a different part from the 4WD cars, due to being designed for a standard spindle insert instead of a axle flange. C4/C4S/Turbo axles won't fit GT2/GT3 uprights.
2. Adjustable coilovers (Bilstein shock with H&R springs) instead of traditional coil springs fixed mounted to Bilstein shocks. These are a direct fit on a regular Carrera. The gen 1 ROW version was actually about 15% stiffer than the gen 2, which was tuned for slightly better road compliance. Both the springs rates and shock valving of the 03+ ROW/04+ US 996 GT3 is very similar to the ROW M030 spring rates and shock valving.
3. Adjustable sway bars with different end links. The sway bars are a bolt-on for Carreras, but need difference adjustable end links due to ride height changes.
4. Split front lower control arms versus the regular 1 piece control arms. The 99-00 ROW GT3 did not have split control arms in front. Those cars came with a reinforced control arms that was stiffer than the Boxster based ones that came on the early 996. One of the improvements for 02's was all 996 Carreras got the stiffer control arms that were used on the gen 1 996 GT3. The split control arms were introduced on the GT2 and later the 03 ROW GT3. They are a direct bolt-on to a regular Carrera.
5. The rear track arm is different on all GT3s. There is a slight length difference on the rear track arm for a slightly different toe-gain while cornering/loading the suspension. This is also a direct bolt-on to a Carrera.
As you can see, the suspension in the GT3 is really a bunch of parts that could be bolted directly onto any Carrera. The GT3 suspension can also be easily improved on: aftermarket boxed/split control arms with pivot adjustable track arm mounts, competition-duty inverted coilovers with adjustable shocks, monoball uprights, solid lower bushings and adjustable sway bar end links are all common upgrades for a GT3 to a more dedicated track setup.
Here are all the suspension differences:
1. Different front spindles/uprights/hats. Contrary to common myth, they are not the same as a Turbo/C4/C4S. They are only common to the GT2 and GT3. The primary reason for the change is the different position of the brake mounting points to facilitate mounting the larger brakes from the Turbo. It is a different part from the 4WD cars, due to being designed for a standard spindle insert instead of a axle flange. C4/C4S/Turbo axles won't fit GT2/GT3 uprights.
2. Adjustable coilovers (Bilstein shock with H&R springs) instead of traditional coil springs fixed mounted to Bilstein shocks. These are a direct fit on a regular Carrera. The gen 1 ROW version was actually about 15% stiffer than the gen 2, which was tuned for slightly better road compliance. Both the springs rates and shock valving of the 03+ ROW/04+ US 996 GT3 is very similar to the ROW M030 spring rates and shock valving.
3. Adjustable sway bars with different end links. The sway bars are a bolt-on for Carreras, but need difference adjustable end links due to ride height changes.
4. Split front lower control arms versus the regular 1 piece control arms. The 99-00 ROW GT3 did not have split control arms in front. Those cars came with a reinforced control arms that was stiffer than the Boxster based ones that came on the early 996. One of the improvements for 02's was all 996 Carreras got the stiffer control arms that were used on the gen 1 996 GT3. The split control arms were introduced on the GT2 and later the 03 ROW GT3. They are a direct bolt-on to a regular Carrera.
5. The rear track arm is different on all GT3s. There is a slight length difference on the rear track arm for a slightly different toe-gain while cornering/loading the suspension. This is also a direct bolt-on to a Carrera.
As you can see, the suspension in the GT3 is really a bunch of parts that could be bolted directly onto any Carrera. The GT3 suspension can also be easily improved on: aftermarket boxed/split control arms with pivot adjustable track arm mounts, competition-duty inverted coilovers with adjustable shocks, monoball uprights, solid lower bushings and adjustable sway bar end links are all common upgrades for a GT3 to a more dedicated track setup.
12-27-2007, 03:29 PM
#50
Burning Brakes
There's one thing that took me some time to figure out during the install as it didn't seem logic to me at the first place; just to let you know: the thick GT3 bar goes in the front and the thinner bar goes in the rear.
12-27-2007, 03:35 PM
#51
Rennlist Member
I have PMed Insite for the drop links (Thank You!!) and Chads996 have found a excellent source for the GT3 sways. Insite has not been on Rennlist for several weeks and his email got bounced back....
I now need bushings which I don't know the spec to the rear bushings come in 3 different sizes and I don't know which to get. Would you have that somewhere per chance?
12-27-2007, 03:52 PM
#52
Burning Brakes
Thanks a lot hwk72.
I have PMed Insite for the drop links (Thank You!!) and Chads996 have found a excellent source for the GT3 sways. Insite has not been on Rennlist for several weeks and his email got bounced back....
I now need bushings which I don't know the spec to the rear bushings come in 3 different sizes and I don't know which to get. Would you have that somewhere per chance?
I have PMed Insite for the drop links (Thank You!!) and Chads996 have found a excellent source for the GT3 sways. Insite has not been on Rennlist for several weeks and his email got bounced back....
I now need bushings which I don't know the spec to the rear bushings come in 3 different sizes and I don't know which to get. Would you have that somewhere per chance?
12-31-2007, 05:04 PM
#54
Rennlist Member
Hi,
Very good read and very informative. There is one error here that I would like to correct for everyone. Having recently upgraded suspensions from M030 to a MKII GT3 I can state with absolute confidence that they are in no way of similar spring rates or shock valving. The GT3 suspension is considerably stiffer.
M030 spring rates are Front: 170 lbs/in and rear 260
MKII GT3 spring rates are Front: 228 lbs/in and rear is 543
The M030 shocks are valved fairly softly at F 146/63 and R 227/132. The GT3 shocks are valved considerably higher as it is notoriously over damped (unfortunately being new years eve I don't have the specs in the notebook that is with me).
So the front springs are 34% stiffer and the rears are over 2x stiffer.
Cheers!
Paul
Very good read and very informative. There is one error here that I would like to correct for everyone. Having recently upgraded suspensions from M030 to a MKII GT3 I can state with absolute confidence that they are in no way of similar spring rates or shock valving. The GT3 suspension is considerably stiffer.
M030 spring rates are Front: 170 lbs/in and rear 260
MKII GT3 spring rates are Front: 228 lbs/in and rear is 543
The M030 shocks are valved fairly softly at F 146/63 and R 227/132. The GT3 shocks are valved considerably higher as it is notoriously over damped (unfortunately being new years eve I don't have the specs in the notebook that is with me).
So the front springs are 34% stiffer and the rears are over 2x stiffer.
Cheers!
Paul
2. Adjustable coilovers (Bilstein shock with H&R springs) instead of traditional coil springs fixed mounted to Bilstein shocks. These are a direct fit on a regular Carrera. The gen 1 ROW version was actually about 15% stiffer than the gen 2, which was tuned for slightly better road compliance. Both the springs rates and shock valving of the 03+ ROW/04+ US 996 GT3 is very similar to the ROW M030 spring rates and shock valving.
Last edited by Paul 996; 12-31-2007 at 05:21 PM. Reason: correction lbs/in not ft/lbs Doh
01-01-2008, 01:51 PM
#56
Rennlist Member
I had both on my 02 C2 and liked both. If you are willing to adjust the shocks, many think they will but never do, then you might get some gains with the PSS9 setup. However, for just putting a set on and driving the X74 is a very nice setup. I drove both sets on the street and track. It was hard to pick the winner. Both cars had GT3 Sways. With the X74 setup I was able to run a 1:20 at Putnam on fresh RA1's. Not the greatest time but I was happy with it.
