Engine Modifications???
Race Car
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 4,159
Likes: 8
From: Chicagoland
Originally Posted by washington dc porsche
*budding in* All CAI's(cold air intake) work better in cool weather, fyi.
Performance is always better in colder temps regardless of what intake you have installed. If you compare the performance of the EVO or stock or any other intake, it will ALWAYS provide better power in cold compared to hot climates. The performance difference as far as temp goes has nothing to do with the intake.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,048
Likes: 1
From: Indianapolis
Originally Posted by karlooz
these are my results FWIW. 281 RWHP ~338.5 FWHP 17% drivetrain loss.
so do you think my mods have gained any HP?
so do you think my mods have gained any HP?
http://dinancars.com/whitepapersFile.asp?ID=9
Written by Dinan for BMW's, but the same principles apply to Porsche.
Race Car
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 4,159
Likes: 8
From: Chicagoland
Dyno charts are worthless. I can post my 623 RWHP chart for my 3.4 liter engine if you would like. Or, if you want, I can show more power. I love seeing a dyno run with the engine lid open and a fan blowing on it. Just like real life? I always drive with my trunk open towing a high powered fan behind me.
How the car peforms is the only measurement that has any meaning. I can't begin to tell you how many cars that show a dyno of 600 hp or more that my little old 3.4 engine out performs. I have found that the more someone touts their dyno number, the lower the performance of his/her car. If you got it, prove it at the track or on the street.
How the car peforms is the only measurement that has any meaning. I can't begin to tell you how many cars that show a dyno of 600 hp or more that my little old 3.4 engine out performs. I have found that the more someone touts their dyno number, the lower the performance of his/her car. If you got it, prove it at the track or on the street.
Instructor
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 166
Likes: 2
From: Chicago
I think Karlooz was just trying to show what the naysayers always ask for... numbers... looks like the run was also done with the lid closed.
In the end, it still seems that the majority of us with mods are happy with the results in ALL driving conditions... yet the ones without the mods seem to know best and continously try to tell people that they are wasting their money and putting reliability at risk... This also seems to be the case with the SC vs. NA or Turbo debate... Those without the SC seem to know all the answers...
I don't mean to totally downplay the opinions of those without mods... there is a lot of knowledge and experience to consider... just consider the source before you make any decisions with your checkbook...
In the end, it still seems that the majority of us with mods are happy with the results in ALL driving conditions... yet the ones without the mods seem to know best and continously try to tell people that they are wasting their money and putting reliability at risk... This also seems to be the case with the SC vs. NA or Turbo debate... Those without the SC seem to know all the answers...
I don't mean to totally downplay the opinions of those without mods... there is a lot of knowledge and experience to consider... just consider the source before you make any decisions with your checkbook...
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,481
Likes: 1
From: Prince George's County, MD
This is funny, they have just proven that accelerometers are probably more accurate than a Dyno machine.. 
Everyone just get a $200 lighter plug in accelorometer from Passport/Bel etc.. .
Everyone just get a $200 lighter plug in accelorometer from Passport/Bel etc.. .
Originally Posted by caf
Read this to understand why a performance increase on a chassis dyno may actually represent a loss of performance in real world driving:
http://dinancars.com/whitepapersFile.asp?ID=9
Written by Dinan for BMW's, but the same principles apply to Porsche.
http://dinancars.com/whitepapersFile.asp?ID=9
Written by Dinan for BMW's, but the same principles apply to Porsche.
Last edited by washington dc porsche; Aug 23, 2005 at 04:39 AM.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,481
Likes: 1
From: Prince George's County, MD
Last night my buddy took me for a ride in his Turbo Charged Infiniti g35 coupe. We ended up next to a BPU'd WRX that runs 13.2 in the 1/4 mile and puts down 289hp(dynojet) to the wheels on a dyno. After months of tuning, my buddy's G35 puts down 360hp/400tq @6lbs of boost(via mustang dyno). My buddy beat the WRX easily even though he shifted gears at 5k rpms. There was no contest. HP, proven scientifically and on the dirty streets.
I have hosted several Dyno Events in my past car club life and have seen the same cars with higher dyno numbers out perform cars with lower dyno numbers at 1/4 mile tracks. I've seen cars with intakes only out perform those without the intake some with a difference of .2 down the 1/4. .1 and .2 is a huge difference in the 1/4 world, it's almost 3 car lengths.
I find it odd that a forum would find that all means of testing bolt on mods or any other type of mods are useless and ancedotal.
I have hosted several Dyno Events in my past car club life and have seen the same cars with higher dyno numbers out perform cars with lower dyno numbers at 1/4 mile tracks. I've seen cars with intakes only out perform those without the intake some with a difference of .2 down the 1/4. .1 and .2 is a huge difference in the 1/4 world, it's almost 3 car lengths.
I find it odd that a forum would find that all means of testing bolt on mods or any other type of mods are useless and ancedotal.
Originally Posted by 1999Porsche911
Dyno charts are worthless. I can post my 623 RWHP chart for my 3.4 liter engine if you would like. Or, if you want, I can show more power. I love seeing a dyno run with the engine lid open and a fan blowing on it. Just like real life? I always drive with my trunk open towing a high powered fan behind me.
How the car peforms is the only measurement that has any meaning. I can't begin to tell you how many cars that show a dyno of 600 hp or more that my little old 3.4 engine out performs. I have found that the more someone touts their dyno number, the lower the performance of his/her car. If you got it, prove it at the track or on the street.
How the car peforms is the only measurement that has any meaning. I can't begin to tell you how many cars that show a dyno of 600 hp or more that my little old 3.4 engine out performs. I have found that the more someone touts their dyno number, the lower the performance of his/her car. If you got it, prove it at the track or on the street.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,481
Likes: 1
From: Prince George's County, MD
HUH? Are you trying to prove me right or wrong?
Originally Posted by 1999Porsche911
Performance is always better in colder temps regardless of what intake you have installed. If you compare the performance of the EVO or stock or any other intake, it will ALWAYS provide better power in cold compared to hot climates. The performance difference as far as temp goes has nothing to do with the intake.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,660
Likes: 6
From: Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted by 1999Porsche911
Performance is always better in colder temps regardless of what intake you have installed. If you compare the performance of the EVO or stock or any other intake, it will ALWAYS provide better power in cold compared to hot climates. The performance difference as far as temp goes has nothing to do with the intake.
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Race Car
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 4,159
Likes: 8
From: Chicagoland
Originally Posted by c70Pete
I beg to differ, the factory stock airbox will perform better than the EVO cold air intake/CONE filter on a very hot day... it's more consistent and doesn't bog down the engine on a warm/hot day like the EVO or ANY open cone filter element.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,660
Likes: 6
From: Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted by 1999Porsche911
The EVO V Flow gets it's air from the same source as the stock unit does, so there would be absolutly no difference in intake temperature. I never even compared the stock intake to any other intake anyway. I simply stated that all intakes will benefit from colder air temps.
The factory box is a much more consistent performer. On a hot day a car with the factory box will pull harder.
Race Car
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 4,159
Likes: 8
From: Chicagoland
Originally Posted by c70Pete
Yes and no... the cone has an opening which pulls in more air... more HOT air and if it's a hot/warm day it just pulls in more (I believe 36% more) hot air and bogs down the engine.... and becasue of it's increased breathing capacity it works better on a cool day... say less than 70F.
The factory box is a much more consistent performer. On a hot day a car with the factory box will pull harder.
The factory box is a much more consistent performer. On a hot day a car with the factory box will pull harder.
As far as I know, the V-flow only gets it's air from the OEM air scoop. The opening of the frame is sealed tightly against the deck whick closes out all engine heated air. Therefore, there is no difference in heat levels compared to the stock intake.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,481
Likes: 1
From: Prince George's County, MD
You are correct. You two are talking about two different types of conical intakes. The V flow is a Cold Air Intake as far as 996's go and the other intake is what we used to call HAI, hot air intakes, because it does suck in hotter air on very hot days because the intake isn't shielded from engine heat.
QUOTE=1999Porsche911]As far as I know, the V-flow only gets it's air from the OEM air scoop. The opening of the frame is sealed tightly against the deck whick closes out all engine heated air. Therefore, there is no difference in heat levels compared to the stock intake.[/QUOTE]
QUOTE=1999Porsche911]As far as I know, the V-flow only gets it's air from the OEM air scoop. The opening of the frame is sealed tightly against the deck whick closes out all engine heated air. Therefore, there is no difference in heat levels compared to the stock intake.[/QUOTE]
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,660
Likes: 6
From: Toronto, Canada
I think the term "cold air intake" is misleading... the VFLOW certainly takes in more air and the effect is noticeable on a cool day... it is also noticeable in a -ve way on a very hot day... and the stock airbox doesn't suffer from this; that I have experienced personally.
Race Car
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 4,159
Likes: 8
From: Chicagoland
Originally Posted by c70Pete
I think the term "cold air intake" is misleading... the VFLOW certainly takes in more air and the effect is noticeable on a cool day... it is also noticeable in a -ve way on a very hot day... and the stock airbox doesn't suffer from this; that I have experienced personally.
Well, unless you are able to rewrite the laws a physics, I have no idea how the stock air box performs better than a box that functions exactly the same, only bigger. The size of the filter, in this case, since it's a closed system except for outside air, has no effect of intake temperature. What you night be feeling is that the stock airbox does not give the stepup in power in cold temps as much as the V-Flow does in the same temperatures. This would explain why you see less of a loss in power as the temperture gets warmer.
Fact is" IF the V-flow allows more air to get to the engine AND computer managment can increase the fuel volume accordingly, the V-flow will always produce more power than will the stock intake.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,660
Likes: 6
From: Toronto, Canada
I undestand what your saying but that was not our experience with the V-Flow on hot/days... the stock airbox ran much better... but when the weather cools off... lookout V-Flow rocks...