cayman Vs 997 and Boxster
04-29-2005, 06:21 PM
#16
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3.4L and 305 ps reminds me 996 01 3.4L and 300ps....
any connection between the two?
The pre-2002 996 motor was designated the M96/01 and featured a 96 X 78mm bore and stroke which provided 3,387 ccs of displacement. Don't know if this will be the one going into the Cayman S.
any connection between the two?
The pre-2002 996 motor was designated the M96/01 and featured a 96 X 78mm bore and stroke which provided 3,387 ccs of displacement. Don't know if this will be the one going into the Cayman S.
04-30-2005, 10:41 AM
#17
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Originally Posted by perfectlap
P-Car fanatic, are ther allot of Porsches rolling around Nashville?
you see a few Cayennes more than anything else - bizarre considering its been out 2 years and the 911 has been out 40!
I'm reasonably confident that I have the only zenith blue 996 in the state
the occasional boxster is seen jetting about
theres a couple of rennlisters who are based here
I think porsche is not luxury enough and too stressful to drive for people in the south! (broad genralisation obviously)
04-30-2005, 01:54 PM
#19
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996's are like taxi, all over SF peninsula ;-)
04-30-2005, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Alexander Stemer
The 911 is an entirely compromised design with the engine hung off way in the back. ... Porsche will preserve the 0-60 advantage of the 997 seemingly to justify it's higher retail cost, though I doubt the 997 is any more costly to build than a Cayman or Boxster. That we accept this pricing is abnormal. AS
04-30-2005, 03:51 PM
#22
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harris, i did seen ONE with meter in the financial district, really.
hddude, AS is speaking the truth ;-)
hddude, AS is speaking the truth ;-)
04-30-2005, 07:49 PM
#23
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hddude,
I'm as much a fan as anybody, having purchased 5 and currently having 2 (99Boxster tip and 02ttX50). Porsche has done a great job compensating for a design which is essentially balanced like a 3 pound sledge hammer. The back has all the momentum. The 67 Toronado had the opposite problem, but somehow Bobby Unser won Pikes Peak with it.
Doesn't mean I don't love tthe 911 series. In fact, the less-engineered 964 series was a blast to drive with easily controllable off-throttle oversteer. Porsche's problem was epitomized by Ralph Nader's work. The novice driver was completely unprepared for the consequences of doing what comes naturally- taking your foot off the gas when you enter a corner too fast, and compounded by hitting the brake at that time. The expert driver could use it to tighten any turn.
Porsche engineering has compensated for this by spring rates, roll rates, and much smaller front contact patch. Plus skid control. It's still a great driving car. But, if the Boxster got all of the goodies of the 996 or 997, it would be better.
Case in point I previously posted. 4 years ago the local Porsche club had a driver school at Blackhawk Farms (a 1.8 mile track near Beloit Wisconsin). They accepted my 17 year old daughter in the Boxster tip. She had absolutely no track experience. At the end of the day, she was quicker than every other 911 variant out there (30 men, 9 other women- most in various 911's and a few Boxsters and 944's), leaving the car in full auto. The take home message to me was that the Boxster is far easier to get close to its limits than a 964, 993, or 996. The understeer that has been engineered in is much safer for Porsche (and for many drivers)
Our cars are fun, but it takes a true expert to extract the most from them. This is exactly the opposite of an Evo 8, for example. Anybody can get into that and get it to 9/10th's almost immediately. But, no other cars have the durability, usability, quality, beauty, and visceral satisfaction of the Porsche 911 series. We live with the singular blemish, kind of like Cindy Crawford's mole. AS
I'm as much a fan as anybody, having purchased 5 and currently having 2 (99Boxster tip and 02ttX50). Porsche has done a great job compensating for a design which is essentially balanced like a 3 pound sledge hammer. The back has all the momentum. The 67 Toronado had the opposite problem, but somehow Bobby Unser won Pikes Peak with it.
Doesn't mean I don't love tthe 911 series. In fact, the less-engineered 964 series was a blast to drive with easily controllable off-throttle oversteer. Porsche's problem was epitomized by Ralph Nader's work. The novice driver was completely unprepared for the consequences of doing what comes naturally- taking your foot off the gas when you enter a corner too fast, and compounded by hitting the brake at that time. The expert driver could use it to tighten any turn.
Porsche engineering has compensated for this by spring rates, roll rates, and much smaller front contact patch. Plus skid control. It's still a great driving car. But, if the Boxster got all of the goodies of the 996 or 997, it would be better.
Case in point I previously posted. 4 years ago the local Porsche club had a driver school at Blackhawk Farms (a 1.8 mile track near Beloit Wisconsin). They accepted my 17 year old daughter in the Boxster tip. She had absolutely no track experience. At the end of the day, she was quicker than every other 911 variant out there (30 men, 9 other women- most in various 911's and a few Boxsters and 944's), leaving the car in full auto. The take home message to me was that the Boxster is far easier to get close to its limits than a 964, 993, or 996. The understeer that has been engineered in is much safer for Porsche (and for many drivers)
Our cars are fun, but it takes a true expert to extract the most from them. This is exactly the opposite of an Evo 8, for example. Anybody can get into that and get it to 9/10th's almost immediately. But, no other cars have the durability, usability, quality, beauty, and visceral satisfaction of the Porsche 911 series. We live with the singular blemish, kind of like Cindy Crawford's mole. AS
04-30-2005, 08:57 PM
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What are the weight comparisons between. I know the enmotors will caruse weight difference in Cayman, but generally what are the weight per hp numbers?
997 C
Boxster S
Cayman
997 C
Boxster S
Cayman
05-01-2005, 04:28 AM
#26
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Originally Posted by Alexander Stemer
hddude,
I'm as much a fan as anybody, having purchased 5 and currently having 2 (99Boxster tip and 02ttX50). Porsche has done a great job compensating for a design which is essentially balanced like a 3 pound sledge hammer. The back has all the momentum. The 67 Toronado had the opposite problem, but somehow Bobby Unser won Pikes Peak with it.
Doesn't mean I don't love tthe 911 series. In fact, the less-engineered 964 series was a blast to drive with easily controllable off-throttle oversteer. Porsche's problem was epitomized by Ralph Nader's work. The novice driver was completely unprepared for the consequences of doing what comes naturally- taking your foot off the gas when you enter a corner too fast, and compounded by hitting the brake at that time. The expert driver could use it to tighten any turn.
Porsche engineering has compensated for this by spring rates, roll rates, and much smaller front contact patch. Plus skid control. It's still a great driving car. But, if the Boxster got all of the goodies of the 996 or 997, it would be better.
Case in point I previously posted. 4 years ago the local Porsche club had a driver school at Blackhawk Farms (a 1.8 mile track near Beloit Wisconsin). They accepted my 17 year old daughter in the Boxster tip. She had absolutely no track experience. At the end of the day, she was quicker than every other 911 variant out there (30 men, 9 other women- most in various 911's and a few Boxsters and 944's), leaving the car in full auto. The take home message to me was that the Boxster is far easier to get close to its limits than a 964, 993, or 996. The understeer that has been engineered in is much safer for Porsche (and for many drivers)
Our cars are fun, but it takes a true expert to extract the most from them. This is exactly the opposite of an Evo 8, for example. Anybody can get into that and get it to 9/10th's almost immediately. But, no other cars have the durability, usability, quality, beauty, and visceral satisfaction of the Porsche 911 series. We live with the singular blemish, kind of like Cindy Crawford's mole. AS
I'm as much a fan as anybody, having purchased 5 and currently having 2 (99Boxster tip and 02ttX50). Porsche has done a great job compensating for a design which is essentially balanced like a 3 pound sledge hammer. The back has all the momentum. The 67 Toronado had the opposite problem, but somehow Bobby Unser won Pikes Peak with it.
Doesn't mean I don't love tthe 911 series. In fact, the less-engineered 964 series was a blast to drive with easily controllable off-throttle oversteer. Porsche's problem was epitomized by Ralph Nader's work. The novice driver was completely unprepared for the consequences of doing what comes naturally- taking your foot off the gas when you enter a corner too fast, and compounded by hitting the brake at that time. The expert driver could use it to tighten any turn.
Porsche engineering has compensated for this by spring rates, roll rates, and much smaller front contact patch. Plus skid control. It's still a great driving car. But, if the Boxster got all of the goodies of the 996 or 997, it would be better.
Case in point I previously posted. 4 years ago the local Porsche club had a driver school at Blackhawk Farms (a 1.8 mile track near Beloit Wisconsin). They accepted my 17 year old daughter in the Boxster tip. She had absolutely no track experience. At the end of the day, she was quicker than every other 911 variant out there (30 men, 9 other women- most in various 911's and a few Boxsters and 944's), leaving the car in full auto. The take home message to me was that the Boxster is far easier to get close to its limits than a 964, 993, or 996. The understeer that has been engineered in is much safer for Porsche (and for many drivers)
Our cars are fun, but it takes a true expert to extract the most from them. This is exactly the opposite of an Evo 8, for example. Anybody can get into that and get it to 9/10th's almost immediately. But, no other cars have the durability, usability, quality, beauty, and visceral satisfaction of the Porsche 911 series. We live with the singular blemish, kind of like Cindy Crawford's mole. AS
i would like to add something here,
the nature of the thread is not if an average driver i.e me, can be faster with a boxster(in this case Cayman= boxster coupe, to my opinion, for lots of reasons.....) than with a 911 (of any generation)
when i first posted the thread-question i was asssuming that driver can drive-to-the-limit, both cars (cayman+997), nomatter how long it takes to learn the car.
on the other hand we should always compare same driver with different cars an the same circuit.never compare different driver with same car and never-ever!!!! diff drivers with different cars on the same circuit, and in order to justify this,i will tell a story wich I lived...
here in greece were i live we do have only 2 proper track fields....
one is close were i live and the total distance is 2.1 klms...
the other one is far away and have never been there...
years ago, porsche club italia came here to visit my country and of course the track.....
one of the official instructors could easily beat 911's....with the very first Boxster 2.5......205 ps.....
he managed 1:13.05......around the track, while me with my 964 approx 270ps suspension...mods exhaust etc....managed only 1:13.80.....
something else too, try to drive a 911 with traction control-PSM off on circuit. time yourself. then drive the same car @ the same circuit, with traction control-PSM on. time yourself again. if there is any possibility of tracking your speed at corners you will find out that at most of them you will have higher speeds with TC-PSM on, and at the majority of them you will not be using it!!!!
then take the tc-psm off and drive again. you will be passing the high speed corners with even higher speeds at those with psm on!!!!!!
what i am trying to say is that confidence+fearless is the most important thing you need from the psychological point of view is that you need cars that will take your fear away and make your confidence higher, since they do not bite!!!!
and boxster-prob cayman are these p-cars
05-01-2005, 03:13 PM
#27
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Originally Posted by P-Car fanatic
yes, we need to make a 'crack smoking' adjustment for car and driver
the same mag which rated the new a6, 530 and e class lower than the respective honda/nissan/toyota counterparts in a sports sedan shoot out
the same mag which rated the new a6, 530 and e class lower than the respective honda/nissan/toyota counterparts in a sports sedan shoot out
