Matt - glad you weren't hurt and good to know that the car is fixable.

 

In a couple years, this will be quite a story to reminisce. I salute you for driving your car like it should be driven. I'm glad you weren't hurt.

 

It's good to see the camaraderie here. I mainly hang out on the Audi boards and there is a very unfriendly post over there aimed at the cgt driver. No one seems to really understand until after they have their first off track excursion. I made one at the Audi Club event back in dec with my green S6. I got her covered up before the vultures had time to snap any pics (I think). GT3nut, I believe you were there, as well. I think we both ended up having a bad weekend then : ( I was hoping to have the S6 ready again for this event, but fate had a different plan. I'll be back on track soon enough though.

Andrew

 

What do we learn from this experience?
Lots of guys have spun off on warm up and cool down laps when traction may be surprisingly poor or concentration lapses. This wasn't that.
In my very first wheel-to-wheel race (32 years ago), I gridded 12th in a field of about 30 and won the race with passing only 2 cars. Drivers who were clearly quicker by qualifying times either broke or spun in the 20 laos of the race. It is very difficult, and generally unnecessary, to drive at the absolute limit in every turn on every lap.
It also takes a great deal of experience in track driving to catch an incipient spin. The key is recognition that you are nearing the edge and responding with Very quick wheel movement and modest throttle manipulation. Both are more difficult than most think, unless you are Juan Pablo. The guys who can do it respond with reflex, not thought. Even Juan Pablo built that reflex by years in karts, not a few track days.
I admire the tone on this board. If you do enough laps, you will spin. And if you don't do enough laps, you will spin. There is no point in sounding superior( and I hope I don't). We are amateurs.
I think the major lesson is in picking the corners in which we explore the limits. At Elkhart Lake, everybody wants to take the Kink flat, since they know that a mid-corner lift is fatal. But so many cars wreck there, everybody also knows that's a bad point for a mistake, so prudence dictates lift before the corner and enter a little slower. It does cost time but saves a ton of hurt.
The corner with huge runnoff areas and no walls is the place to experiment. This is true for any car, and I think true of any driver but those with tons of experience. I'd be interested if our Rennlister agrees.
The CGT saga is harder to fathom. That car requires a master to even approach the limits. Any amateur would feel way over his head for many laps. Almost nobody can catch a mid-engined car on street tires that gets even a few degrees sideways, without tons of practice.
When I was lucky enough to step up into vintage Can AM, the car was so scary that I don't think I ever exceeded 6/10's in the entire weekend. Even after multiple events, I don't think I surpassed 8/10th's. Success in that type of car is measured by completing the event with the body and mechanicals intact.
While it's great to see such cars well-driven, that CGT probably wasn't. The Corvette site shows it being passed by a BMW coupe. The driver was clearly uncomfortable with the car or the track. Skip Barber controls this situation with very low rev limits-like 2500 in any gear. This limits acceleration and top speed. That type of caution is really hard to learn. I guess the real take-home meassage is that the greater the car, the more trepidation is required.
My closing point will sound odd. A carbon fiber chassis car is not repairable short of a trip to the factory. If so, the driver's obligation is to not break it. Trundeling around in 3rd gear while passed by BMW coupes is perfectly appropriate. At my one and only trip to Road Atlanta in my old Lola T163, I was passed by a Spitfire during practice. I didn't know the track, didn't have much confidence in myself, and didn't feel bad about it. Cars like the CGT should not be driven quickly on the track by any but the most experienced owner I'd rather see one being driven agonizingly slowly than backed up into a tire wall. I'd love to hear the CGT owner tell us what he learned. AS

 

Well said

 

I agree with a lot of what Alexander posted.

I'm glad that my local road course (Hallett Motor Racing Circuit, Hallett, OK) has no walls that could likely be hit. I've had 2 off-track excursions there in my GT3 and the worst that happened is that I lost the front plastic chin piece.

D. Min
Tulsa, OK

 

Aaah. Turn 10. My instructor warned me about turn 10 first time I was at VIR. Your actually picking up speed through the esses, late/later/later still to set up for blind turn 10, then breath-gas-apex-trackout.. If you miss any part of the rhythm and drop the right side at exit, then stay out rather than come back in. With the right side out, the exit is downhill and the right side slopes down and you're off camber. Better to give up and just slow waay down before coming back in, or even go off to the right altogether where there is a large run-off. With those points in mind, the esses and turn 10 complex was actually a fun place to explore the limits.

Glad to see no one was hurt. Spins, errors will happen. That's the nature of the beast. We are all amateurs at the track and are all still learning.

 

Hey Matt,

It's Anton. Sorry about your incident and that I wasn't able to see you after that. I'm glad to hear that the damage wasn't as bad as it looked.

Patch it up and see you at the next event!

 

Excuse my ignorance, I've never been to VIR, but what does the term 11/10th, 8/10th refer to?

 

Driving a car at 10/10th means driving it *at* its limits. 11/10th is exceeding its limits and 8/10th is just under.

 

Palting
Well said on the turn 10 sequence. The essess being late/later/latest and 10 looking as though it will not bite. Faster up the hill, the faster you get to 10 and the faster.... I remember getting the esses "right" or at least right for me and then realizing I was carrying more speed to 10. Big potential ooops. Drop 2 off right and just continue along in the grass until things seem just a bit more normal. Have seem many a car pulled from just that spot and as you know, when you come to the corner, it just does not seem that intimidating, viewing what looks like miles of run off in front.

Remember watching the ALMS cars in the rain. Dyson was actually getting to this corner, left foot braking, and rotating the car right at the 10 apex to point it down the hill. Four of us in the car and none of us said a word watching that happen.

 

Thanks Viken.

 

matt i agree with you on the support from the forums here - i had a lot of it when i had my off at SIR in 03' (the car is close to done and was quite a bit more serious than yours). I am still hearing about it at the local porsche events from people who were not even there (good and bad). it happens, especially if you are on track quite a bit. Glad your OK and it was nothing more serious.
Turn 10 claimed several cars last time i was at VIR for the fall fling in 04' (i was actually in a rental mustang & a 996) as well as Oaktree. Great track

 

Heh-heh , the devil of an instructor I had tried to talk me into left foot braking to settle the car and help with the turn-in. Not even my telling him it was my first time at VIR would dissuade him. I finally just said no and he laughed. Should'a just told him I was no Dyson.

What you did was the right thing, tho, strshp. Cutting back on the track with any kind of speed and the track characteristics at that point would have spun and slingshot you across the track into the tire barriers backward. Just like what happened to Matt.

Sorry, Matt. But sometimes the best way to learn is from someone else's mistakes. Glad to see your car is fixable. Good luck with the repairs. You need to get back on the track!!!

 

Carrera Mike asked me to check this thread out as he had heard me describe some incidents that damged two GT3s and a 914 at the Zone 2 DE April 1-3. Mike and others, this is not from that weekend. Could someone tell us which weekend and event this was?

Thanks.