ArthurK

Mark,

No dramas in seeing my 996. Who have you been talking to at PCM? They are really great IF you are serious about a purchase. The guys there would hand over cars to me for 2-4 hours or even the day. They didnt know me from a bar of soap at the time either. Took me 3 months before I bought the 993. I would highly recommend you speak to Peter Sullivan he is the used car sales manager but extremely good. Give him your requirements and he will find you a car. The only thing with Peter is that he has a dry personailty and you dont know when he is serious or joking

harris

it really depends on road + weather conditions........

PSM and all other safety devices are not needed untill you will find that you should have had one.....

here in Greece were i live PSM is for sure one THE most wanted safety option....since road condition is horrible....imagine when weather condition gets bad as well....


My 996 was bought in germany, and has been used for 8 months in UK, i have never seen PSM operating until i drove my car here in greece....

the same thing happend in my 964. i used to own a 964 for 5 years in uk, and i cannot really remember how many time ABS operated in my hands.....i would assume it was les than 10 times.......

again, here in greece 964's abs was suffering from operating all the time....


PSM is a very nice operating safety option, wich i believe you should look for, because it will only happens once, and having in mind that grip levels and speeds will be at very high levels then the results of loosing control of the car will be very bad....

MS911

Thanks ArthurK and Harris,

Arthur, I have been dealing with Andrew Kerr at PCM, fairly young but bright. Have avoided Pierro there as he got sore when I purchased my 964 elsewhere - he actually called weeks later and said "I know you bought somewhere else" - talk about fatal attraction revisited!!

I have an office in Collins Street and am on holidays this week, so we may be able to catch up this week or next. PCM invited me to a "Driving the Range" day and I shot for them (I own a photography business). I drove everything except the Turbo which they didn't have on that day.

PCM called me the other day - they have an '01 Lapis Blue C2 Coupe with Silver Console and Dials. 40k's and all for only $129K (saw it advertised for $139K on www.carsales.com.au, so the 996 prices may start to soften a little more as the 997's roll out)

I may test drive it, but I think I am leaning more toward the '02 996 (3.6l, updated front/rear bumpers, headlights)

Best,
Mark

Arthur you can email me - mark@artistphotographer.com or call my cell 0416,224787 to organise a time to see your cab

Lomcevak

Mark:

With regards to an '01 vs. an '02, highly recommend going with the '02 or later. Porsche did a fairly comprehensive update with the 2002 model year.

RJFabCab

Earlyapex and DJ996 have summed it up well. IMO, PSM is a well designed safety system which "learns" your limits (according to the factory manual). It is a terrific safety net when the unexpected occurs. Drive sloppy, and it cuts in sooner. Drive smoothly, and it gives you a little more rope to deal with. Drive smoothly pushing the limits of adhesion even with "PSM off", and it's still there to save you when you F things up.

Some folks don't like the way PSM intervenes at the track, even when the system is turned off. The simple solution here is to get a real track car. Problem solved.

Out on the street and even on the track, PSM is cheap insurance. Even professional drivers make mistakes which may or may not be "correctable". If you're not paying attention or the unexpected occurs, it's nice to have PSM on your side.

Cheers

rrys

Is PSM worth it? On the one hand the 996 is so overkill that if it were driven carefully at/below our US speed limits it would be very rare indeed that PSM would be activated. A deer, debris, an accident in front of you, or situations combined with rain or snow are some of those rare instances. Some autocrossers/race drivers simply do not like the concept of a control system encroaching on their domain and may not wish to admit that a control system could outperform them. It is not a competition of driver vs. PSM. The driver cannot brake indiviual wheels, but PSM can. PSM measures "yaw" and compares this with the "expected yaw" based on the steering wheel angle and the speed. Porsche has their own unique rules (control system algorithms) as PSM is a bit different than other vehicles.

I took my 1999 C4 Porsche out in the snow to see how the PSM actually functioned. Turning off the PSM did not turn off the ABS, but it did take away the Yaw control and the traction control functions. With PSM off I could spin the car, i.e. do donuts. With PSM on, flooring the throttle appeared to find all the available traction like magic. It felt like I could accelerate faster than the ABS could stop me. I.e. seemed faster from 0-30mph than 30-0mph. The PSM would allow a some sliding, but attempt donuts and the PSM would take the throttle away. I have done some "Ice Racing" with the BMW club in NH, and it is the smooth vehicles that have the fastest times. From my observations, I would suspect that excellent drivers would rarely see the PSM become active, but less skilled drivers would benefit more often.

The PSM has helped me twice, unexpectedly, both times on entrance ramps in the rain. Likely saved me expensive encounters with the guard rail. Apparently, I am not in the excellent driver category, nor was I strictly within the posted speed limits at the time.

When I bought my C4, I considered a number of C2's without the PSM. For me the PSM and the AWD were key differentiators. It has been worth it.

harris

.....and you can always turn it off...at anytime, if you like.....

fast1

I remember having a discussion with a salesman who told me that PSM was a waste of money. Just coincidentally the car that he was trying to sell me didn't have PSM. My opinion was that PSM was a great safety device like ABS, and if you tracked the car you could always disable it. Well apparently Porsche agreed with my view since PSM is standard on all 997s.

I agree that PSM may never be needed but it is a great to have it just in case you have to make the emergency manuver to avoid hitting a deer or some debris that falls off of some truck. One way of looking at it is that PSM is like having auto Insurance. You may never need it, but it sure is nice to have it when the need arises.

harris

waste of money??????

it only cost around 300 euros here in greece to have it as an option.....in a brand new car......

rrys

Seems like there is a clear trend toward Stability management:

http://www.esceducation.org/about_es...vehicles.shtml

Audi: Electronic Stability Program (ESP).
BMW: Dynamic Stability Control (DSC).
DaimlerChrysler: Electronic Stability Program (ESP).
Ford Motor Company: Advance Trac.
General Motors: Active Handling System (Corvette), Precision Control System (Oldsmobile), Stabilitrak (Pontiac, Buick, Cadillac).
Jaguar: Dynamic Stability Control (DSM).
Lexus: Vehicle Skid Control (VSC)
Porsche: Porsche Stability Management (PSM).
Volkswagen: Electronic Stability Program (ESP).
Volvo: Dynamic Stability Traction Control (DTSC).

1999Porsche911

Why not hire a chauffer to drive for you too? Stay away from the computer control as much as you can and learn to drive and have fun. Soon they will have the cars steering and accelerating for us. How boring and how low of a skill set do we need. They should have the option of eliminating the ABS too.

riotgear

I am in the market for a 2000-2002 996 and I'm looking to buy a car with PSM. I owned a 2004 Infiniti G35 Coupe with VDC, which is similiar to PSM and it saved my life. I had a rear left tire blow at 75mph. My car started to swing out to the right, but VDC came on and kept my car from spinning out ot going into the center divider. Before this event I didn't see a whole lot of value in the system.

houldsworth1

1999

I think you are missing a little bit of the point here... This has less to do with car control and more to do with the unexpected. Even the best driver in the world could still be caught out by the deer/kid/dog/diesel/manic Mom with three kids in the the back of the mini-van. One would hope that a well trained a person would react perfectly - for all other times there is PSM to offer a helping hand.

Going to the track? No problem - turn it off. There you will be totally focussed, will have some friendly people with flags to warn you of problems and the traffic is all going the same way.


However, I take your point about retaining control of the car. Personally I see individual control of cars as only a matter of time. Once technology has evolved sufficiently and shows a superior safety record the government will be put under pressure by the safety nuts to make automated control a requirement.

Alas, that will only happen in the richer countries that can afford it - thereby making society dependant and weak...

Barry

1999Porsche911

I just giving you guys a hard time. However, I am serious about the ABS. I hate them. I was able to buy a new Nissan (2004) for my son and got it without ABS. I prefer to have absolute control over drifting, traction, braking, etc. Maybe I am old school, but driving is an adventure for me and if you have to rely on a computer to correct your mistakes, how will you ever learn to drive? But for some people, I guess it is good. Just more weight and potential problems in a car IMO.

AeroSmith

I've completed two Porsche Driving Experience courses including the masters course. The instructors there (Herley Haywwod, Doc Bundy to name a couple) love PSM. They call it the instructor's best friend. It can litterally teach one to drive more smoothly on the track.

PSM was only one of two options I wanted on my car (Xenons being the other). I wouldn't buy a P-car without it at this point. Anything that makes a 180mph car safer is a good thing IMHO. It's engaged twice on my car in 18 months, both times durring sharp turns on rain slicked roads.

PSM is probably the least intrusive stability control system on the market. Acoording to the PDE guys it will allow up to 7 degrees of slip angle in turns. Any more is sub-optimal. This is hardly a system that drives the car for you. Smooth drivers will almost never have the system engage, even on the most technical of tracks. Not so smooth drivers may have the system engage somewhat frequently.

Now PCM is not a panacea and I twice watched fellow students at PDE spin their 996s off the track in the rain. So to think it will make up for very poor driving is a mistake.

BTW, if PSM is turned off, according to the PDE instructors, it automatically switches back on as soon as the ABS activates.