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Engine mount replace and not jacking car up?

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Old 01-22-2023 | 03:52 PM
  #31  
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996 engine mounts, easy job, no problem using a ratchet.
IMO, why not take a few more minutes and raise up the rear enough to make it more comfortable easier access to see exactly what you're doing..?
But if you can comfortably worm in there without lifting the rear a little, all the more power to ya.....

As long as we're talking quality air tool vs quality LiPo , another vote for Milwaukee. Used air tools for decades, now they haven't been used in many years.

My newest 1/2" Milwaukee Fuel is advertised for 1400 ft lbs torque. Not sure if this is accurate real world torque, but...
My neighbor borrowed it and came back with 3 twisted off wheel studs/nuts in his hand from his F250 and said tool is no good, to strong. Showed him how to turn down the power and feel it out instead of full throttle till it snaps.

Milwaukee Fuel impact also has a bolt removal mode that applies just enough torque to break fastener loose.. no reason to twist/break things off...
Actually my 18v 3/8" impact Milwaukee Fuel puts out 600ft lbs and takes off wheel studs/nuts no problem. Not sure what fastener on a 996 would need any more than the big 1/2 Fuel...

My Ingersoll Rand air impact seems not as strong but is a little lighter maybe... its still way stout enough for anything I've ever needed with ease, but needs a air line dragging around to use it. Big Milwaukee Fuel feels like better control of the torque imo, also easier to get the angle straight on the fastener without an air hose to account for.
If in a all day long constant professional use maybe the air line would be the better choice over changing out a few batteries a day idk.? They're both time saving tools, but for me the Fuel LiPo impact wins out every time for ease of use, just pick it up and do it... No air line connection to drag around the shop, no lubing the tool before use, no compressor and all the maintenance/cost that goes along with a shop air compressor...

Quick change long lasting battery tech of LiPo batteries brought a new era to power tools. Think I could break loose a train wheel with my new 1400ft lb 1/2 Milwaukee Fuel impact, its an absolute beast.

jmo


Old 01-22-2023 | 04:49 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by TexSquirrel
No need to lift the engine with the jack, just support it.

1) Put a board between the jack and the sump plate.
2) Raise the jack until it meets the sump.(do not raise the engine or vehicle)
3) Remove airbox
4) Remove the engine mounts
5) Take obligatory picture comparing old vs new engine mounts
6) Install new engine mounts (This process will likely raise the engine so it is no longer resting on the jack)
7) Remove Jack
8) Reinstall airbox
9) Go drive it!
10) Post results and comparison photo on Rennlist
I like this. Sounds so simple. I had my Indy do it, and the tranny Mount, which I believe is harder. He was in there anyway, doing the rms ims and clutch. The icing on my cake (and it is my cake, you might prefer more or less icing) was when I installed one of those poly damper shims, u know the purple people, into the transmission mount. I'm still not 💯 happy with the shifting, but the new mounts, the FF Shift right, the Raceseng titanium alcantara stratos ****, the sexy sexy alcantara w red racing stripes shift boot, and the new fore aft shift cable connector, I have nothing to complain about. Would I try different, yes, why not. Something that raises the **** up to me closer, but doesn't result in a flexy mess. No rush tho. But none of those updates would have helped much if the drivetrain was sagging to the ground. Get those mounts done folks. See, I didn't hijack the thread, I came back to motor mounts☺️
Old 01-22-2023 | 06:47 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by wyovino
Drive the rear wheels onto some dimensional lumber if you need more clearance to get underneath. With the jack in place, your goal is to unweight the engine from the bottom nuts of the mounts. Make sure you have the jack centered under the engine (left to right) or one side might drop a little bit when you remove the nuts. In that case it can be difficult to thread the nut on the other side after the replacement. You might need a second jack to lift that side high enough to get the nut started. Been there. Done that.
Well not off to a great start. Supported engine with centered jack and 2x4 - but when I took off passenger side 18mm bolt engine dropped a good 2-3" so there is likely no way I'll have the thread room to get the bolt on. But then also when i tried to screw in the 13mm top bolts to 17 lbs, the bolt got rethread and squeezed and ruined. I think I didn't 'lock' the wrench, and maybe that allowed far more torque (or at such a low setting, the clicks were not noticable).

So now I have to go find a replacement bolt and probably a second jack. Well guess I shouldn't have expected my first diy to go without problems

Is it possible I damage the threads inside the carrier for that bolt? Since the mount is all downward force, does the bolt really do THAT much besides keep the mount from moving laterally? Wondering if I can put it all back together, with old bolt. Not drive it, but at least give me time to go find a replacement - and then just swap it out, which wouldn't require removing lower 18mm bolts...?

EDIT: I had no choice but to jack the engine up from center to get it back up. Passenger side still a lot lower than driver, but I an atleast get the 18mm bolts no now. I used the the bad bolt for now, but I didn't feel comfortable leaving the car with the engine loose while I hunt down another bolt.


Last edited by Ben8jam; 01-22-2023 at 07:14 PM.
Old 01-22-2023 | 07:42 PM
  #34  
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Well, I'll try to help...

Originally Posted by Ben8jam
Well not off to a great start. Supported engine with centered jack and 2x4 - but when I took off passenger side 18mm bolt engine dropped a good 2-3"
That means you either didn't center the engine weight on the jack or did not take the 'weight off the mounts. You need to not just support it, but need to hold it up enough that the nuts don't hold the motor up, the jack does. That requires you to jack it up very slightly. Engine has to be more or less balanced/centered on jack enough to not **** to either side when nuts are removed.

But then also when i tried to screw in the 13mm top bolts to 17 lbs, the bolt got rethread and squeezed and ruined. I think I didn't 'lock' the wrench, and maybe that allowed far more torque.
Not sure how you tried to screw in the bolts, but always a good procedure to only start bolts by hand a few full turns before using ratchet or power tools. If you're new to automotive/mechanical assembly work never assemble with power tools, always by hand first and final torque with a hand ratchet or torque wrench.
Once you get familiar with tightening fasteners you will feel the bolt/nut threads 'bottom out' then start to stretch. Important to know/feel that start of the stretch point and not go any/much farther, no matter what your torque wench says...

Also clean bolt threads spotlessly and remove any and all burrs before assembly. I like to run bolts over my bench mounted wire wheel then either use never seize or a little grease/oil depending on application. Then try screwing in by hand. If you have to force a fastener in with a ratchet or power tool, its bad mechanical practice that will more than likely come back to bite you later on...


So now I have to go find a replacement bolt and probably a second jack. Well guess I shouldn't have expected my first diy to go without problems
Ya, Get a new one and try running a die thru. Can't you just pump up jack enough to jack up engine to screw on nut..?

Is it possible I damage the threads inside the carrier for that bolt?
Yes, try threading in a new bolt all the way by hand.

Since the mount is all downward force, does the bolt really do THAT much besides keep the mount from moving laterally? Wondering if I can put it all back together, with old bolt. Not drive it, but at least give me time to go find a replacement - and then just swap it out, which wouldn't require removing lower 18mm bolts...?
IMO, thats your engine mounts, do it right, now. From your pic, get a new bolt, and chase the threads with a tap and see if you can then hand thread it in all the way....
Don't let this get you down, its a learning process. If you have perseverance, you'll be fine in the end and know jobs are done right.
jmo

Last edited by allcool; 01-22-2023 at 07:51 PM.
Old 01-22-2023 | 07:53 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Ben8jam
Well not off to a great start. Supported engine with centered jack and 2x4 - but when I took off passenger side 18mm bolt engine dropped a good 2-3" so there is likely no way I'll have the thread room to get the bolt on. But then also when i tried to screw in the 13mm top bolts to 17 lbs, the bolt got rethread and squeezed and ruined. I think I didn't 'lock' the wrench, and maybe that allowed far more torque (or at such a low setting, the clicks were not noticable).

So now I have to go find a replacement bolt and probably a second jack. Well guess I shouldn't have expected my first diy to go without problems

Is it possible I damage the threads inside the carrier for that bolt? Since the mount is all downward force, does the bolt really do THAT much besides keep the mount from moving laterally? Wondering if I can put it all back together, with old bolt. Not drive it, but at least give me time to go find a replacement - and then just swap it out, which wouldn't require removing lower 18mm bolts...?

EDIT: I had no choice but to jack the engine up from center to get it back up. Passenger side still a lot lower than driver, but I an atleast get the 18mm bolts no now. I used the the bad bolt for now, but I didn't feel comfortable leaving the car with the engine loose while I hunt down another bolt.

If those are zinc steel and they're bolted into aluminum, chase those threads and get new bolts or clean those up. Brake caliper bolts are of these materials on our cars I think, same drill.
Old 01-22-2023 | 08:00 PM
  #36  
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Follow up #2 - (still curious if using that bolt above is okay just temporarily)

I had to jack the engine up quite a lot to get the threads visible underneath. Way more than a few mm's as previously stated. I wish I had put more into jacking the engine point up more. The engine dropping when the first bolt was removed freaked me out, I assume on jack stands this wouldn't have occurred, not sure if related to car resting on suspension.

The extra 2" on the 2x4's was super helpful.

I rethreaded and stretched a 13mm top bolt out of nervousness. Now have to go find one.

The passenger side exhaust is slightly lower than the driver side. Unsure if related to the drop or if the engine is slightly lower on one side than the other. Once it was all free, I moved the jack over slightly and jacked up on the passenger side thinking it would free up some extra threading, but it was still at 63lbs.

I'm amazed that the engine is supported by just two 18mm nuts! Now that I see how it's put together, it's crazy those two nuts stop the engine from falling out ! Pics of how much threading is left - I don't know how to tell if the engine is as high as it can go.

PICS: Before and after from rear. Old and new mounts. And final thread remaining on new mounts after torqued down.






Last edited by Ben8jam; 01-22-2023 at 08:29 PM.
Old 01-22-2023 | 08:17 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by damage98MO
If those are zinc steel and they're bolted into aluminum, chase those threads and get new bolts or clean those up. Brake caliper bolts are of these materials on our cars I think, same drill.
Thanks for the reply, but i'm not sure I understand well enough what to do... Find a brake caliper bolt?
Old 01-22-2023 | 08:23 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by allcool
Well, I'll try to help...
Don't let this get you down, its a learning process. If you have perseverance, you'll be fine in the end and know jobs are done right.
jmo
Thanks. I did screw in by hand but when i switched to the torque (manual) it just kept turning and turning with very little force. But yes, inexperience I guess...

I had read only jack up a few mms to support where the engine was currently, But It really needed a lot more than that. Which I found when having to jack the engine up high enough to get the 18mm nut on.

"From your pic, get a new bolt, and chase the threads with a tap and see if you can then hand thread it in all the way...."

Can you explain what this means exactly? Chase with tap?

Last edited by Ben8jam; 01-22-2023 at 08:30 PM.
Old 01-22-2023 | 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Ben8jam
Thanks. I did screw in by hand but when i switched to the torque (manual) it just kept turning and turning with very little force. But yes, inexperience I guess...

I had read only jack up a few mms to support where the engine was currently, But It really needed a lot more than that. Which I found when having to jack the engine up high enough to get the 18mm nut on.

"From your pic, get a new bolt, and chase the threads with a tap and see if you can then hand thread it in all the way...."

Can you explain what this means exactly? Chase with tap?

"I'm amazed that the engine is supported by just two 18mm nuts! Now that I see how it's put together, it's crazy those two nuts stop the engine from falling out !"
Sure, tap & die are tools that make threads or used carefully can possibly 'chase' threads clean of buggered up threads. A new bolt should be fine so you won't need to use a 'die'. The threads in your carrier were what you seemed to be concerned with. So try the new bolt, if it threads in by hand easy all the way, you're all set. If not don't force it. Use the appropriate size 'tap' to clean/chase the threads, then brake clean in the hole hard, follow up quick with air to blow it out and see if you can clean them up....

Ya, the 2 nuts holding that end up is an ingenuous engine mounting system for sure. Plenty strong enough. Makes track swaps quick and easy. Thats why the mount end is to a point, for easy find the hole jack ins.

Last edited by allcool; 01-22-2023 at 10:04 PM.
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Old 01-22-2023 | 10:21 PM
  #40  
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  1. Replace that bolt. While you're at it replace them all.
  2. You probably didn't actually lift the weight of the motor off the mounts. If I were doing it your way I'd jack the motor up until I saw the body of the car start to lift, then back down a tad.
  3. Hang in there!
Old 01-22-2023 | 10:39 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Ben8jam
Can you explain what this means exactly? Chase with tap?
In this pic, the tap is on the far right and is used to cut threads in a newly drilled hole. The gold anodized thing next to it is a 'thread chaser' and is used to fix buggered threads. Either one should work for you.
Are you in San Diego by any chance? If so, you're welcome to borrow mine and I even have a correct bolt you can have for free.





Old 01-22-2023 | 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by wdb
  1. Replace that bolt. While you're at it replace them all.
  2. You probably didn't actually lift the weight of the motor off the mounts. If I were doing it your way I'd jack the motor up until I saw the body of the car start to lift, then back down a tad.
  3. Hang in there!
Per 2, yeh this is why I started the thread to begin with, my gut said "if you just support the engine and then remove the engine from the chassis, won't the engine kinda stay put but the car will go up because of the suspension now supporting less weight? I didn't know how to ask that fully though --- and still not sure if that's what is happening/happened.

In retrospect when doing this on the ground, not jack stands, one needs to really jack the engine up a lot more. Which is what I had to do in end, I just wish the "drop" didnt happen.
Old 01-22-2023 | 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by allcool
Sure, tap & die are tools that make threads or used carefully can possibly 'chase' threads clean of buggered up threads. A new bolt should be fine so you won't need to use a 'die'. The threads in your carrier were what you seemed to be concerned with. So try the new bolt, if it threads in by hand easy all the way, you're all set. If not don't force it. Use the appropriate size 'tap' to clean/chase the threads, then brake clean in the hole hard, follow up quick with air to blow it out and see if you can clean them up....

Ya, the 2 nuts holding that end up is an ingenuous engine mounting system for sure. Plenty strong enough. Makes track swaps quick and easy. Thats why the mount end is to a point, for easy find the hole jack ins.
Originally Posted by SoCal911t
In this pic, the tap is on the far right and is used to cut threads in a newly drilled hole. The gold anodized thing next to it is a 'thread chaser' and is used to fix buggered threads. Either one should work for you.
Are you in San Diego by any chance? If so, you're welcome to borrow mine and I even have a correct bolt you can have for free.
Thanks guys, I'm going to leave the airbox and air pump out, but keep the engine bolted. And try and find four new bolts for top. Hopefully receiving side is okay, otherwise will find a tap (I'm in glendale, a bit of a drive to SD, but thanks). Pelican might have the bolts, I'm sure theyre $85 a piece

i'll likely just start over again. Jack the engine up 3" so its pushing the car up. Undo the 18mm nuts, jack it some more to make sure up high enougg, install top 13mm bolts, install lower 18mm nuts (which I'll clean). Then hopefully left and right side will be even (right exhuast is a cm-2 lower than left)

(unless above is over kill)
Old 01-23-2023 | 12:21 AM
  #44  
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Part # and description. Just go or call your local dealer. They will have the bolts next day.

Hex-head Screw 8x40 - Genuine Porsche90037805501

Also its common to have to adjust the exhaust tips after swaping motor mounts.
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Old 01-23-2023 | 01:37 AM
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If you have the motor mounts properly installed and torqued, the exhaust unevenness is likely due to a tailpipe not being aligned properly. You can loosen the exhaust clamps and position the tips where you want.

Last edited by Flenn; 01-23-2023 at 01:40 AM.
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