BRUCE

Who is this masked man, Rod. I just want to say " thank you" to Rod for answering all our questions and for very nicely replying to my e mail request with a detailed 6 page stereo installation guide. I had just committed to having a system installed by my local shop but I really wish I was near Rod or heard of his shop first. Please, guys, buy some stuff from this guy. I would imagine he has plenty of business but everyone could always use more.
Thanks again, Rod.

PS. I am having a system installed as I type. Wish me luck.

mattmarsden

Wet996, could I not change the door cards?

wet996

Not sure what a door card is. I was describing the interior door panel. Its one piece - though if you remove it, the lower section (with the carpet) looks like it can be separated from the top section. I am sure you could order new panels - but I would imagine that is pricy. There may be a solution for the doors w/o the hi-fi option, but I will leave that to the experts... Rod

hotrodc4s

hey all,
adding the door speaker location can be tricky. Not only do the hifi equipped cars come with the door speaker enclosure on each door, but the door panel is different-not just because the hifi door panel has a grill attached to it, it also has the clearance for the speaker enclosure.

I forgot to mention this in my last post, JayM's car came without a door speaker location, as did a couple of other 996's shown on our website under "Porsche installations", so there's Jay's Ruf Turbo, and a couple of '99 coupes where I did the conversion.

Here's what I do:
I pick up a pair of the enclosures from a local dealer, (that's $250 right there!), then I remove the existing open map pocket from the door panel from the back of the door panel. Once that's removed, I'll mount the speaker enclosure on the door and start checking fit with the door panel, trimming the (former map pocket) opening to fit with the enclosure in place. This involves trimming that opening larger, but just big enough, since next I cover the opening with a handmade grill. The grill is a bit tricky, I have a jig for a piece of ABS plastic, flat 3/16" thick, that has a speaker opening in it, and has something of an elliptical shape (to match the interior). I hand-form this ABS piece with a heat gun until I get it the way I like it, then I wrap this grill piece with black grill cloth, and attach it to the door panel from behind with a bunch of short screws and washers. This is hard to describe, but the results are on the website. The end result, IMHO, looks good and stands up to use and wear, which I think is very important. I think many shops can modify the doors to accept speakers, but the important things are achieving a good airtight seal with some air volume behind the driver, clearance for the front of the speaker, a rigid mount for the speaker and grill, and oem wear properties, making sure that the whole setup will hold up over time.

-Rod

hotrodc4s

'another quick post about the door panels. The lower section does look removable from the front of the panel, but I examined these closely in hopes that I could simply swap the lower section for a hifi on the first set I converted, uh, it's like one big piece of plastic. doh!

I checked with the dealer initially, and they said $900 each for door panels. A salvage yard can likely do better, but still probably not cheap. A set of hifi door panels and the enclosures would be a simply, abeit expensive route.

-Rod

MLA911

wet996, click on the "check it out" link and it will show you everything I've had done. Drop me a PM if you want to try and hook up in DB. Mike.

hotrodc4s

hey, that looks like a sub enclosure that I built! (Especially with the elliptical grill listed Image Dynamics 8" subs.) We still build boxes like this (recently an experimental transmission line in an '02 TT, that I think is failing the real-world test, so may revert back to multiple sealed drivers, but no more of the 8" subs, it just seems to make it too tough to get the rear upper seatbacks in their upper locked position. (In the photo, the carpet color looks like one color and the interior carpet another, like spice grey and metropol, or graphite grey and spice. Let me know if you want a piece of matching carpet cut to the correct dimensions. I'm guessing it was ordered for a different car originally? The front bottom edge of that box (I'm assuming it's one I built because it looks exactly the same) should have enough of a flap of carpet hanging off the front edge to tuck behind the rear seat backs and there shouldn't be any visible seams at all. It appears that this flap of carpet simply tucked under the front edge of the box. I don't know if this makes sense.)

The 8's really require more front to back depth. 5" or 6.5" no problem, or our upright dual 10" enclosure which will house either dual 8's, dual 10's or dual 11's (Focal's are metric, but really close to 10's. I'd say about an inch difference). This enclosure is vinyl wrapped and can have Turbo or Carrera embossed in the back, as we did in this one '01 coupe. I'll include a shot of the front view. On our website at http://www.caraudioinnovations.com/porsche.htm under "Our Sub Enclosures for the 1999-present Porsche 911 (996) and Boxster (986)" is another picture of the rear with Carrera embossed. I don't think it's so high that it blocks rear view, but I think that's entirely subjective, so some may be comfortable with, some not. This is my favorite setup, with dual Focal 11's, of course. The Porsche crest shaped part on the front of this was designed to duplicate look good at the same time it hides the vinyl seam. I'm not sure if I like it. It might need a big color crest decal.

I guess I'll need to change the heading of that page to 1999-2004 Porsche 996, eh? I need to find out now what fits in the 997. Any willing participants in the Sacramento, Roseville, SF Bay Area 'have one on order? I'm dying to see what they're doing for speaker locations.

On the dual 8" subwoofer enclosures that I've sold in the past, if anyone should have one and not be happy with latching their seatbacks easily, I'll take care of you with a newer version trading your setup in at no charge. It'll be a multiple JL Audio 6W0 subs. The Image subs are really nice, but not too hard to blow, and the newest versions are really deep and seem less reliable still. I'll still warranty all Image subs for 2 years with outright replacement of some JL Audio 8W3's or equivalent, which are a bit more money than the Image subs were. If you've got some that are older than that, I'm sure we can work something out to take care of you.

Thank you everyone for being patient with me building and shipping enclosures and shipping equipment out. We've been just slammed with biz at the shop and via "mail order", short one man (until next Wednesday! haha!), that trip to Kentucky put me behind, and tonight at 5:45 pm my son was born. There's a bit of a stretch, my daughter is now 9, but we wanted her to have a brother or sister and not regret it. The kids are what it's all about for me. I can make a living doing what I love and support my family. If Car Audio Innovations keeps doing as well as the last few months, then I think my wife can refrain from going back to her full time job after her 2 months maternity deal is up. Thanks to all our wonderful customers (we're especially grateful to our Rennlist members who've helped by spreading the word!), there is a good possibility that she may only need to go back to work part-time, or not at all! And I get to employ people and go home in the evenings away from work, unlike the first 8 years of this biz, doing it all from home. I'll celebrate the 4th year of the retail store in June. The store was possible because of Rennlist members (and formerly Porschefans members, and Porshelist members...).

Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

I'll stop now.

-Rod

hotrodc4s

sorry Mike, I just re-read an earlier post of yours, and duh, you did order the sub enclosure from me. I didn't connect that with the website where your car is featured. doh! sorry man.

If I screwed up on that carpet match, let me know and I'll rewrap it for you, no charge.

hey, your car looks great!

Those Image Dynamics subs (if you don't over-drive them) play smooth and low. We've got a RTA for a 996 coupe with dual Image 8's doing a bunch of energy at 20 Hz. They're incredible. I wish they still made those V.2's. doh!


This is a good opportunity to show the back of that vinyl wrapped enclosure I mentioned in a previous post. I had to reduce the size of the photo (like the front shot on my previous post) to qualify for less than 150KB filesize. But this should still do it justice. This puppy is expensive because it's labor intensive, all custom fiberglass work, vinyl wrapped, and this cat went for the $150 embossed Carrera script option. I really like how it came out. I've got this custom guy Geoff working with me, and he's a craftsman with many different materials.

Mike, the warranty on the box and subs applies to you too buddy. If you find that the box just isn't doing the job you'd hoped, I can swap you for another one that fits better and matches, no charge.

-Rod

hotrodc4s

duh, after all that I forgot to attach another picture of the larger, more expensive sub enclosure compared to the style in Mike's car, which is all wood. (1/2" MDF, glued and screw, lined and braced, stuffed and wrapped in factory carpet).

questions, comments, feedback always welcome, hotrod930@msn.com

-Rod

Carlos from Spain

That is very cool work Rod, no wonder you have so much work
and great info regarding the different options.

Here is another box (2x10" sealed)


Other views:
http://members.rennlist.com/raptor/subinside1.jpg
http://members.rennlist.com/raptor/subskyview1.jpg
http://members.rennlist.com/raptor/subtop1.jpg

hotrodc4s

I like it, I like it!

That's a nice look, and it integrates a crest-clever! And if someone wanted a more "low key" or stealth look, a grill could be made that wouldn't highlight the shape of the subs but look stock. I'll bet you've got 3/4 cubic feet of air volume per subwoofer. Nice. It looks like the subs have to be pretty shallow, especially because I can see the exhaust vent for the interior ventilation system in the corner, which is pretty much on the "deck" as I remember offhand. Did someone use the shallow neodymium type subs? Like the Planet Audio, or Illusion Audio? I've got a few of the Planet subs just for shallow applications, they're discontinued now (dumb company, flitting from one product to the next like a butterfly in a field of flowers). Light, stiff kevlar cones though, and pretty smooth response. I think 12's would work in that design if were raised just a bit more!

I'll bet the response from that is amazing. I'm assuming that you've got sufficient mids and highs to keep up with some authoritative bass response. I'll bet those subs load to your interior very nicely. 'Much better bass response in such cars (and hatchbacks, and SUV's) because it's one contiguous space. You don't have a rear seat and wall/shelf to "contain" the subwoofer output. Some cars you just can't hear the bass without providing sufficient vent area, especially BMW's and Mercedes. 'Try comparing the setup in Carlos' car compared to someone whose put a subwoofer in the trunk (!) of their 911, especially a 964/993, and even more isolation (two walls and a void with gas tank and battery between trunk and cabin!) in the 996 and Boxster. Look at how tightly that trunk seals up. It's like listening to muted bass in someone else's car from a distance compared to the response in Carlos' car. The 911 of all years is a good candidate for subs (even 8's provide incredible and smooth response) in the interior space where you're seated. Oh man, potential for "knock your socks off" potential in sound quality.

Mix one part Porsche 996 with one part well-designed system, install it properly, achieving good mounts, level matching, and a clean source unit (hehe, anything but Becker, IMHO) and you've got nirvana.

thank you for the picture Carlos, that gives me some ideas on different layouts.

-Rod

Weissach

I can't believe that know one has said anything about the Ipod. CDs just don't cut it anymore.

My question is very specific. Are there any real advantages to using a higher-end headunit if one is using an Ipod. If one is using the aux-out on the stock Becker, it's bypassing the "inferior" CD player. This also would also mean that you are bypassing the "great CD audio" on a Nakamichi head unit.

So for those of us that have stopped using CDs long ago because we just had to many cases full of them, are there any real reasons to get a higher end unit??

hotrodc4s

I've installed a few auxiliary input cords on the Nak decks, and my feeling is that it's the best of both worlds. Small, portable music, extensive, albeit compressed a bit. And for true sound quality, put a CD in.

I've driven a number of different 996's and 993's for short trips to/from the SF Bay Area to pick up and deliver cars. It seems that the tuners aren't nearly as strong as just about any aftermarket deck I've installed, stock antenna and booster (don't forget to connect that blue wire!). It seems like I've seen a good number if ones that simply died, but that seems true with most oem radios, GM, Honda, regardless of actual maker (Clarion, Alpine, Eclipse).

For more music, my favorite choice is the Nakamichi MB100, 6 discs indash with tuner, 24 bit, however only front and rear preamp outputs (5 volts selectable though). It will be replaced by the MB10 when Nak gets around to it. For now the MB100 is discontinued. I've got a couple squirreled away. hehe. I might put one in my BMW. I currently have an Eclipse head unit (we became Eclipse dealers back in December) in my car with an Eclipse changer. The cool thing about the 8 disc Eclipse changer is digital out, which means my 24 bit DAC deck (8053 has digital in) processes the signal for noticeably cleaner sound. The bummer of this changer is that it doesn't support CD text, only titling (lame!) and I've got text burned into all my CDR's (slowly duplicating my store-bought collection for car and work use) so that I can read the title info when I play them. Here's this Eclipse piece with a digital out, and no CD text! yikes! I called them, they said that they kick it around as an option at meetings occasionally.

Kenwood makes the Music Keg with a 20GB cartridge, and you can buy additional ones. It's got 24 bit processing. All of the Kenwood Excelon CD head units this year have 24 bit and they sound nice. (I've got one in my El Camino, hehe, with Sirius satellite radio, the flipping MASK face style).

Carlos from Spain

You are absolutely right Rod, the bass response this way is incredible and much more integrated with the rest of the frequencies of the other speakers I found compared to other cars I've had with the box in the trunk, it just blends in really nicely if the system is tweaked correctly. Also much more efficient bass output result out so just like you said, you need to have adequate mids and highs in doors and dash to match nicely. The rear coaxials are just run of the dash's output since just for fill, and you save amp for the sub and speakers like you also mentioned.

The best part is that the deck behind the seats is actually stair-stepped so you don't need shallow subs, since the magnet can fit if oriented towards in the lower step next to the seat backs With shallow subs you could maybe get 12" in but that would probably make you loose a couple of tooth fillings if you raised the volume too much Also two 8" subs could look very stealth back there, but I like 10" subs for my taste in particular (and sealed enclosures).

BTW that carrera logo on the back of the sub is brilliant :chhers:

hotrodc4s

Carlos you've got a really nice setup buddy. The enclosure is a great match.

I took another look at the photos a while ago and saw how they tilted the subs so the magnet portion is in the lower "step" there. Coolness. Fiberglass makes for so many more possibilities. The vinyl finish is nice, I think vinyl looks classy, and even oem. I'm doing some vinyl wrapping in my daily driver (not a 911-sorry!), and I think I will paint the enclosure itself. We recently painted a pair of enclosures on a Scion XB (Toyota's funky boxy generation X/Y vehicle). I love that kind of finish, especially when it's color-matched to the exterior and a high quality, flawless finish. We did some funky vinyl and neon too. There's also a 2001 996 on our site under "Porsche installations" (www.caraudioinnovations.com) with some black mesh, vinyl, neon and a nice big plexi red Focal logo in the trunk. (And the spare is easily removable!). I've got this sweet custom guy Geoff, he did most the work on both of those vehicles, with me doing the paintwork on the Scion enclosures. (Those days back in the early and mid 80's where I worked in autobody have really paid off-it's like my automotive career has some full circle. I remember what the body shop owners (colorful guys, the Lamperti Bros. in SSF, CA, and Custom House Auto in San Mateo (Jag specialists) after that. It's all in the prep, and laying down the material smooth and wet without runs. It used to be lacquer in the old days, now we've got hvlp guns and much more work with high solids urethane clears, that can be tricky to spray without a good quality gun. (I, as we say, invested, first in a $300 gun, every nice piece, then another, this time I think $480 for one with a digital regulator built into the handle)(!)

I too think 12's would be overwhelming, and might require more stout midbass drivers than the doors will usually accomodate. The Focal Utopia 5" subs really rock in the doors, and we've run them as midbass drivers and in some cars as the main subs. 'Not a bunch of volume or authority, but good low extension, and a little bit of quantity that sometimes surprises you. A pair of 10's or 8's are my way to go, and I'm still making sure that I've got good midbass drivers in the doors or floor. In my personal, non-911 car, I'm running a 5.25" and tweeter in each door (Focal Polykevlar (incredible speakers!) now, but I might try Dynaudio or Morel soon) and 6.5" dedicated midbass driver in a fiberglass enclosure on the floor just ahead of the front seats, aimed slightly at the dash. I might paint these too.

Back on the subject of Ipods and hard drives versus CD's, a few companies make indash units with a hard drive, but I think most are 10 GB. Pioneer's I think is $2k, but might have come down. It also takes a memory stick for music which I think you can transfer back and forth to the hard drive. Sony has one, but I know anything about it except that we no longer sell Sony. Eclipse has a hard drive unit, and I think it's 20 GB, and it's a double din unit, which might work very well in a 996 dash. I don't know about reliability yet, but we'll stand behind it and if it fails we'll swap for same or same price paid toward any other brand we have, Pioneer, Eclipse, Nakamichi, or Kenwood Excelon. I don't sell Alpine, but I believe they still build some quality units. I don't care for the appearance of most, but I'll bet I could get used to most of them. They have at least one headunit in their line that has an actual interface of some type with the Ipod, displaying titles and I think controlling possibly through the Alpine head unit, which has to be neat.

My advice on decks is buy something that you like the looks of, and make sure the performance is there, as well as reliability. 24 bit DAC is a big plus, and IMHO affordable now. I've got a Kenwood deck that's $229 and it's got 24 DAC. All the units above it have 24 bit and 5 volt preamp outputs. They're nice decks. Pioneer has chosen to do 24 bit with their new "all in one" AVIC-N1 indash AM/FM/CD/DVD/Navigation (pant, pant), at the ridiculously low price of $1999.95. We've sold a few of these in a short period of time and Pioneer is "double backordered" on these units, which are just about half the price of a comparable setup last year. And 24 bit! Pioneer's DEHP8600 is very nice, and has a color display, their Organice OEL display that's blue/black on the less expensive units, $499 and built in 13 band EQ. Lot's of these features cost a bunch more money last year, it's like trickle down electronics. Eclipse is nice, you've got to be okay with flourescent and blue display, silver on the face, like most decks these days. Their quality doesn't seem to be quite as solid as the Pioneer and Kenwood, hell, even the Nakamichi stuff is solid these days, especially the CD400 at $449. (24 bit!) The older Nakamichi MB75's would jam on people because their 6 disc mechanism in that unit is finicky and packed in with the onboard amp and DA converter. The MB100 is really solid, I only had one jam and it was because of a CD with rough edges. I understand that the Eclipse 6 disc units were the same as the MB75, and that's why they're discontinued. I really like the features of the Eclipse units, 24 bit (sorry) but the one in my car has needed to be reset 3 times, where I lose the clock and presets-again! No CD text recognition with their changer, which makes them perhaps the only major brand not to have that. I've had a couple of other units stolen from customer's cars because they have the "ESN" feature intead of a detachable face. I think if a thief doesn't go to Eclipse Thief University, he may not know that the deck won't work once it's unplugged if it's been encoded. He's probably got a date with a crack dealer. I get nervous walking away from my car with this Eclipse unit in plain sight in my car. Fearing damage to my car more than a missing radio. I'm leaning towards one of my secretly stashed Nakamichi MB100's in my car. I might just yank the Eclipse, do the MB100 with a detachable face and 6 discs where I can change them more easily and often.

There I go rambling again. I get going and can't stop.

-Rod