Correct, that means that the IMS Solution is warranted for an unlimited number of miles in a 5 yr period only.and as many miles as you can put on it in 5 yrs as long as it was installed by an authorized shop.

For the retrofit kits, LN says they are a wear item and are only good for a certain mileage/time interval and should be changed out. So, if you follow the mfr's instructions, yes, you should update the IMS to another retrofit or the Solution when that interval is up. I'm facing the same in a couple years...PO put a retrofit in just before I bought it. I will probably opt for the Solution.

 

I'm a bit confused by the "warranty" provided for the Solution kit too because, while LNE touts it as a being "designed for the life of the engine" and is warranted for UNLIMITED miles, the warranty is still limited to 5 years as well. Does this mean that all LN IMS upgrades, including the Solution, should be replaced every 5 years?

Seems like that's what they're saying but there's no way I'm going to replace the IMS every 5 years, like it's an "ordinary" service item, especially at a current cost of around $4-5k to do the job. I "might" replace the earlier upgrade kit in my 996 now w/the Solution, in 3 years (when the current warranty expires) if there's a reason to do so but, given the cost, there are a lot of reasons that I would NOT want to do it unless it's absolutely necessary.

I'll just have to make that decision if/when the time comes.

 

You are mixing metaphors and confusing "warranty" with "service life" or "service interval". Two different concepts. Just like your TV, which is warranted for 2 years, but has a much longer service life...or, say, the water filter in my fridge, which is warranted not to fall apart or spring a leak in a month, but must be changed out every 6 mos.

The IMS Solution is a permanent repair, the service life of which is the lifetime of the engine. You will never need to replace it, it has no service interval. The warranty is against defects in workmanship or installation if prequalified and installed at an authorized distributor (I believe...the warranty section of the website is down, so I can't read the warranty FAQ for the Solution).

The retrofit kits are wear items with a limited service life and must be changed (per the manufacturer) at an interval of 4yrs or 50k miles (whichever comes first) for the Retrofit Classic, 6 years or 75k miles (whichever comes first) for IMS Retrofit Dual Row or IMS Retrofit Single Row Pro from LN Precision. However, I believe it has a limited warranty against workmanship defects of the part itself.

 

So why doesn't LNE just give a lifetime, unlimited mileage, warranty on the Solution upgrade ?

 

Because something else such as damage by impact during accident, some other engine component that fails and causes the solution to fail, etc etc. shouldn’t justify a free replacement unit.

 

The same reason Porsche doesn’t give an unlimited miles/year warranty for the rest of the car.
It’s a horrible business decision and no one expects it.
You have to have a limit to a warranty or the possible liability never ends.
The only reason why some manufacturers give unlimited warranties is they are betting that most people sell their vehicles within just a few years.
Some crazy people plan to keep their old Porsches forever.

 

Congratulations!
That's a nice shine.
These are awesome cars. Drive it and enjoy!

 

I don't disagree with this BUT they are also saying that the Solution is "designed to last the life of the engine" which (while it is probably true that they DESIGNED it to last the life of the engine) is a bit misleading because they are actually only offering a 5 year unlimited mileage warranty.

Will a Solution upgrade have to be replaced in 5 years as is suggested for earlier upgrades (like the one in my car)? Probably not but the only thing you have to rely on is their "claim" that the design of the Solution will actually survive the life of the engine because, if it doesn't last beyond 5 years, you will not be protected by their warranty beyond that time and will have to pay for a blown engine if it fails.

Guess it just depends on how much you are willing to trust LNE's claim that it will last the engine's lifetime because there's not yet enough of a track record to prove that it's a valid claim or not.

BTW, if you actually read LNE's warranty, there are so many exclusionary provisions in it, including an attempt to exclude liability for the implied warranties of merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose (which is arguably legally impermissible and contrary to their statement that the Solution is "designed" to last the lift of the engine) that it is unclear that they are accepting any liability for engine failure as the result of the installation of the Solution beyond their express warranty that the Solution itself is free from defects, if it is installed by a "qualified" installer PRECISELY in accordance with "all guidelines and procedures."

So, fair warning, there's enough exclupatory langugage in LNE's so-called warranty to make proof of a claim (if they want to dispute it) all but impossible to establish without a long legal battle that'll cost a lot more than replacing an engine. I should know since I'm was an attorney specializing in product liability litigation (for the defense) in one of my past lives.

See: Line to LNE Warranties

 

It makes sense for a company to have a time limit on liability. This is why coupons and items with "limited life time warranty" have some expiration date or condition.

A co-worker of mine had an AMC Rambler sedan as his work car. He put a Firestone battery in it in the 1970s that had an unlimited life time warranty, as long as he owned the car. He didn't sell it until he retired around 2014. He went through about ten free replacement batteries over the 40 years he drove it. They made him show proof of ownership and registration each time he got a new battery because they were losing money on him.

 

LOL, now I understand, you are a lawyer. So, lemme get this straight...you are quibbling over the fact that the IMS Solution is designed for lifetime use yet is not fully warranted for a lifetime? How many other transactions have you made in your life that are similar. You took a 30 yr mortgage on your abode, with no guarantee it would still stand in 30 years. You bought cars on loans, probably, with no lifetime warranty even for the life of your loan. You bought TV's that you expect to last more than 1 year, but they only carry limited warranties of 1-2 years. The list goes on. .

Well, from an engineer's perspective, the reality is that the IMS Solution constitutes a hydrostatically loaded plain bearing...literally a simple hunk of metal that is designed to take shear loading and friction it will see as long as it is fed with oil. It doesn't get much simpler than that. It is the same concept that is used on the OTHER end of the intermediate shaft in the original 996 design. The plain bearing end doesn't fail (that I've heard)...the ball bearing on transmission side does!. Plain bearings have worked in previous 911 designsand about a gazillion other applications for a couple centuries. It is a completely different technology than the sealed ball bearings used in the original design. No, you will not have to replace it as long as it is consistently fed with oil and you can have great confidence in it. That's not some kind of Jake worship, that's basic engineering. The fact that there already exists an oil fed plain bearing in every 996 motor is certainly track record to prove that such bearings work.

The difference, if you believe that the original 996 ball bearings themselves are the weak point, is that the Retrofit bearings MUST be replaced at some point as they face the same potential catastrophic failure mode as the original basic bearing design on the car.

 

Not "quibbling." Just trying to be clear on what's covered and what's not. Based on what I've read, you really just have to take it on "faith" that the IMS Solution will do the job. If not, good luck meeting all of the requirements specified in LNE's warranty in order to obtain warranty coverage if the upgrade fails.

BTW, I was only a lawyer for a short period of time but you don't forget your training. I was a COP a much longer period of time and I preferred being a cop. There are actually a lot of similarities between the professions, particularly as it pertains to reading and interpreting legal matters but cops have the powers of arrest; lawyers don't.

 

I was just busting stones about the lawyer thing. However, it isn't "faith" in the IMS Solution...it is applied physics and the fact that it is a solution that works in all other Porsche cars. I have no doubt that the Solution, if installed on my 911, would be the last component I would worry about surviving in that car! BTW, there are other direct oil fed permanent installation options out there besides Raby'....EPS offers one, for instance, and they claim their cylindrical bearing design will last the lifetime of the engine (5 yr warranty) and "Since we started to sell our EPS Cylindrical IMS Bearing in 2013, we have sold 5,000 units in total, and we have NOT had a report of a single failure". So, you have other choices. Good luck with your decision...whether it is sell, upgrade, or just enjoy!

 

The problem with the Vertexauto/EPS so called direct oil fed roller IMS bearing system is that they cut a channel in the oil pump drive and then feed oil through the IMS shaft in order to lubricate a roller type bearing. This is very bad in my opinion - it can cause balancing issues with the intermediate shaft , weaken the oil pump drive, and you take away 1 quart of oil for the crankcase. Another problem I have with this company is that they market it as the IMS solution and call it patented. I read their patent and the ONLY thing that is patented is one part in the whole system - a single trust control washer. That's it! But yet, they promote and market their product as the patented "IMS Solution". The LN Engineering name The IMS Solution is a product trademark and protected by law. At least that's my understanding. It's still amusing to see them piggyback off the success of the LN product through their marketing techniques. I'm sure it's not amusing to Raby and LN.

 

Perhaps my response was so short that it was missed, but it doesn’t make it any less valid. They are warranting one part that is used with countless other parts that they have no ability to qualify how long they will last. If an engine succumbs to bore scoring, d-chunking, a broken timing chain or literally hundreds of other possible catastrophic failures, it would be easy for a shop to claim it was the fault of the bearing in lieu of its known popularity for taking out M96 motors. Not to mention the quality of care a car is given post install.
That’s precisely why they also require the solution to be installed by an authorized shop and only AFTER the rest of the car has been pre-qualified for a solution installation.

Their warranty seems reasonable and makes sense to me.

 

Not to derail the talk of warranty...

If I'm being honest I'm really not worried about IMS failure. The failure rate is between 5-8%. If I paid the original price over $100k back in 02' that would be one thing. But as a toy car, literally 3rd car? Ehhhh life is too short to be scared of a 5-8%.


Now all that being said.... when it's time for a new clutch I suppose itll be worth it to spend the extra 600 bucks to get a new one slapped in.