jkoravos

Incorrect.

ETA: Probably helpful to some people, not those who do their research before buying a car. In any case, I was simply laughing about "only 8%" failure rate. It's a funny comment, to me considering that 8% failure rate of any specific part is horrifically bad.

EDIT 2: I believe this is an early '01 with the dual row bearing, so the 8% is actually not correct.

docmirror

If it's helpful to only one buyer out of 10,000 coming from a used car salesman, that's a bonus.

Your 'belief' system notwithstanding, you have no idea what bearing is in there, and neither do I. So, the used car salesman quoting the higher of the two published values was again being helpful. If he were edging toward deceitful he could have used the lesser value, and like you, guess that the car has the double row bearing. He could have said "what is an IMS bearing".

From my investigation, the 8% failure rate was the one most covered by the media likely due to it's high incidence of failure. Certainly the qualifier 'only' is rather disingenuous but what's a used car salesman to do if one calls for a 996 at a stealership and asks about the IMS first thing? His job is to move tin, not discuss the finer details of zero defects, and six sigma, infant mortality, bathtub curve of materials failure, etc. He's a used car salesman, not a freaking mech engineer.

jkoravos

Oooh, I hit a nerve.

Horsepwr

These cars are high end sports cars for less money than a new Honda Civic. That being said the reason is due to the 8% chance it blows up. So for me that is a low percentage in my eyes to have an awesome car for a fraction of what it really should be worth. Keep in mind for around 3k you can just replace the IMS and not worry about it for years to come.

Get one and enjoy the ride!!

I tell people if you are going to worry about the cost of maintenance, preventive maintain ace or the IMS/Bore Scoring these cars are not for you. They are cheap to buy, expensive to keep....

Not trying to be a jerk, just sharing my outlook on these awesome cars!!

cjmahone66

I made similar call, but dealer assured me only 2% or less suffer from IMS issue. he treated me like I was a hypochondriac.

4Driver4

Perhaps he was suggesting that the other 6% enjoyed the IMSB issue?

TexSquirrel

When I took my 135i in for the airbag recall, they told me my car was in great shape. (It really was, with 200HP more than stock!)
They keep sending me letters offering me money for my 135i in a trade in for a new BMW.
I e-mailed them letting them know it had been replaced with a Porsche 911.
The letters just keep coming though.
Last offer was just under $6K.
Heck, I would probably pay that much for another 135i!
It was a fun car, just not manual 996 fun.

Prelude Guy

I am not sure why people are concentrating on the 8% or whatever rate that affects these engines. It is just going to keep going higher and higher as time passes. It is a problem, a major one. These engines will keep dying.

It's like stating how many people have diabetes right now and focusing on that number for years to come. The number of people with diabetes will keep climbing as time passes.

They did that with my friend who had a 335i. They kept making random offers. He was excited. I told him I would bet money that if he took his car in to actually trade it in, they would offer less.

I didn't expect them to offer me any money. Mine is a 2001 with just over 100K miles.

I predict a manual 135i coupe with a 6-spd will go up in value in the future. Great little car! The 1M is very expensive now!

GarrettSR5

I looked at a 99 996 at a Honda dealer.
It was a trade in (should have been the first red flag) and I asked if they had any maintenance records and was laughed at.
Took it for a test drive and the entire suspension was junk. Just for laughs I asked about the "intermediate shaft bearing" and was told "only really old cars have one of those shafts"
Offered half the asking price and was quickly turned down

Ok.

dporto

Ha^^^ Go back in a month, if it's still there see if it takes a little longer to turn you down...

808Bill

What was the list price of this $13K 996?

5CHN3LL

Wait, so only old boxers had layshafts.

Inneresting.

Bob Dobolina

[QUOTE=Prelude Guy;15998201]I am not sure why people are concentrating on the 8% or whatever rate that affects these engines. It is just going to keep going higher and higher as time passes. It is a problem, a major one. These engines will keep dying.

I sure hope so. The value of the cars that have addressed IMSB should skyrocket as 996s become more and more scarce.

RSflared72e

Well, the total number of 996s worldwide that suffer these failures cannot go down, and any more failures will increase this number. So the crude COUNT of IMS failures will indeed go up.

But - I'd say the RATE of failures is not likely to increase. As seen in the stats, many of these cars already revealed their propensity to fail early on.

And, since knowledge of the problem is near-universal now among those giving these cars serious thought, more and more 996s are receiving updated IMS kits that reduce the risk of or prevent it from happening.

So altogether, the overall PROBABILITY of experiencing an IMS failure while a 996 owner is likely decreasing, and these occurrences will likely be isolated to the rough cars in the hands of non-enthusiasts. And the overall PROPORTION of 996s on the road that experience the failure will likely decrease.

They do a pretty good job at (https://truedelta.kinja.com/a-pin-le...man-1672108784) in discussing what we would call information bias in my field. Among cars showing up to Flat6 Innovations and other shops that trumpet the M96's failings (keep it up! keep prices down!), I bet the rate of IMS failure, bore scoring and countless other maladies is high. But among all 996s, the true numbers will never be known, and probably aren't large.

Put another way, I'll take the gross estimate of a 92% to 99% probability of NOT having an IMS failure to get a 911 for <=$20k that sold for $76k, any day. (In my case, the risk is hopefully lower, as my current 996 cab had a fresh IMS kit from the PO). That is called playing the smart odds.

To address another respondent here, when putting my $20k in the box, I DO get something back - a great-driving car with an acceptably low chance of catastrophic failure.

808Bill

Just saw a 99's dual row fail a couple of weeks ago. Posted on the FB Group.