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engineering: thrust load on IMSB

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Old 06-02-2019, 05:37 PM
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mrfeh
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Default engineering: thrust load on IMSB

I'm trying to decide between the LNE Retrofit (ceramic ball bearings) and the RND roller bearing for my IMSB replacement.

I've done some reading about both...my main question is: why would there be much axial (thrust) load in this application?

Thanks.
Old 06-02-2019, 05:45 PM
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808Bill
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Ball bearing seems to be a more appropriate application from what I've read. But, the SOLUTION trumps all.
Old 06-03-2019, 02:50 AM
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dan_189
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LN is the leader in this space - buy a retrofit pro or solution
Old 06-03-2019, 10:15 AM
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mrfeh
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Originally Posted by dan_189
LN is the leader in this space - buy a retrofit pro or solution
The RND roller replacement is engineered by LN.

I'm surprised nobody is able to tell me how/why axial load should or should not be a concern.
Old 06-03-2019, 10:20 AM
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cds72911
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An I am surprised why you can't use google and the Rennlist search function. IMS bearing == rehashed over and over and over.
Old 06-03-2019, 10:22 AM
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mrfeh
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Originally Posted by cds72911
An I am surprised why you can't use google and the Rennlist search function. IMS bearing == rehashed over and over and over.
I've read many, many threads and articles on the subject. I haven't seen the answer to this specific question.
Old 06-03-2019, 10:34 AM
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dan_189
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Originally Posted by mrfeh
The RND roller replacement is engineered by LN.

I'm surprised nobody is able to tell me how/why axial load should or should not be a concern.
Yes I am aware and if you look hard enough you'll find that even LN still recommend a retrofit or solution over the roller bearing.

But hey it's your car - install whatever you'd like.
Old 06-03-2019, 10:55 AM
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NuttyProfessor
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Originally Posted by mrfeh
I've read many, many threads and articles on the subject. I haven't seen the answer to this specific question.
Read this article on LN's site.

http://imsretrofit.com/roller-bearin...jkn8lwmInZPpto
Old 06-03-2019, 11:02 AM
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mrfeh
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Originally Posted by NuttyProfessor
I've read that page, and I don't think it answers my question: in this particular application, why would axial load be a concern? How would axial load be applied?

From this non-engineer's perspective, radial load capacity is really all that should matter.
Old 06-03-2019, 11:06 AM
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NuttyProfessor
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Originally Posted by mrfeh
I've read that page, and I don't think it answers my question: in this particular application, why would axial load be a concern? How would axial load be applied?

From this non-engineer's perspective, radial load capacity is really all that should matter.
When you say "particular application", are you asking the forum why it's necessary that a bearing inside the intermediate shaft of a Porsche M96 engine needs axial thrust control?

If so, the intermediate shaft is like an airplane's propeller, when the engine engages and shaft is under load, there is axial thrust. That thrust on the shaft could damage a cylindrical type bearing.

Old 06-03-2019, 11:24 AM
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mrfeh
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Originally Posted by NuttyProfessor
When you say "particular application", are you asking the forum why it's necessary that a bearing inside the intermediate shaft of a Porsche M96 engine needs axial thrust control?
Yes, exactly.

If so, the intermediate shaft is like an airplane's propeller, when the engine engages and shaft is under load, there is axial thrust. That thrust on the shaft could damage a cylindrical type bearing.

I'm hoping somebody could explain where that axial load comes from. My non-engineer's mind doesn't understand what would cause it.
Old 06-03-2019, 11:38 AM
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I hope I am remembering this correctly. The other end of the IMS has a plain bearing with no thrust control at all. So all of the thrust load is handled by the IMSB at "this" end of the IMS. I can't say I know where the load comes from, it is probably not a large load, but it exists. Probably any spinning shafts has some thrust load, even if it isn't for some explicit purpose. So it is important for the IMSB bearing to handle it. It is getting hard to find the reference (source) for this point, but it is here somewhere on the forum.
Old 06-03-2019, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by mrfeh
I'm hoping somebody could explain where that axial load comes from. My non-engineer's mind doesn't understand what would cause it.
Beyond taking a class in mechanical engineering, one of the quickest sources of information is by going to YouTube and searching "axial load engines". There are many videos that describe and demonstrate axial load/thrust.
Old 06-03-2019, 12:40 PM
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808Bill
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Centrifugal force of the IMS combined with the gravity pull from the moon and the earths rotation = axial load..

.I don't know **** on this topic!
Old 06-03-2019, 12:46 PM
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mrfeh
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Originally Posted by NuttyProfessor

If so, the intermediate shaft is like an airplane's propeller, when the engine engages and shaft is under load, there is axial thrust. That thrust on the shaft could damage a cylindrical type bearing.
I can understand axial load in this particular example (airplane prop), because the prop is pulling the plane forward. But, in the case of the IMS, that factor doesn't exist.

I'll try to set aside some time to cruise youtube...


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