Carrera or Cayman?
05-14-2019, 08:30 AM
#16
I've been down this path (mentally) for the past 20 years or so LOL
I LOVE the 986 Boxster S. Front and rear trunk, convertible so you can hear the engine sing, classic proportions, etc.
The ****-ster (as Jeremy Clarkson called the Cayman) has its merits also (mainly the hard top and more interior storage space) but I'm not sure its worthy of its premium over a clean 986S (for me).
What did I end up with?
1999 996 C2. I did get a really nice purchase price for mine even though I spent plenty more to bring it up to date with maintenance, etc but its the car I always wanted. I still want a 986S at some point and may end up with one sooner than later but i'm 6'6" and fitting in one may be a chore even with aftermarket seats.
As others have mentioned, they can all blow up and cost you $$$. My biggest reason for questioning how long I'll be hanging on to my 996 but you cant go wrong with it as "You have to own a 911 at least once in your lifetime"
Buy a clean 996.1 (early cars have the dual row IMS that is "less likely" to blow up) and put the extra $$$ away for maintenance, fun parts, track time, etc.
I have a list 30 cars long of cars I need to own at least once in my life and while I really really enjoy my 911, time will tell how long it sticks around.
I LOVE the 986 Boxster S. Front and rear trunk, convertible so you can hear the engine sing, classic proportions, etc.
The ****-ster (as Jeremy Clarkson called the Cayman) has its merits also (mainly the hard top and more interior storage space) but I'm not sure its worthy of its premium over a clean 986S (for me).
What did I end up with?
1999 996 C2. I did get a really nice purchase price for mine even though I spent plenty more to bring it up to date with maintenance, etc but its the car I always wanted. I still want a 986S at some point and may end up with one sooner than later but i'm 6'6" and fitting in one may be a chore even with aftermarket seats.
As others have mentioned, they can all blow up and cost you $$$. My biggest reason for questioning how long I'll be hanging on to my 996 but you cant go wrong with it as "You have to own a 911 at least once in your lifetime"
Buy a clean 996.1 (early cars have the dual row IMS that is "less likely" to blow up) and put the extra $$$ away for maintenance, fun parts, track time, etc.
I have a list 30 cars long of cars I need to own at least once in my life and while I really really enjoy my 911, time will tell how long it sticks around.
Could somebody tell me which years had dual row IMS? How much less likely are they to be a problem compared to the single?
05-14-2019, 08:33 AM
#17
~1% failure vs ~10% failure on newer cars.
That may be an older number though so it may be skewed... the older the cars get, the more failures there will be. Not all failures are due to IMS (Theres PLENTY more that can kill your motor)...
05-14-2019, 08:38 AM
#18
Drifting
Read the FAQ? Nobody knows for sure, although most sources agree 1999 and before had dual row. Some 2000 had dual row, but there is no way to know without disassembly. Nobody knows the failure rates either, despite some fact like percentages that get thrown around frequently. IMO, the best bet is to either upgrade the bearing, or if you chose not to, just don't worry about it and accept the risk. Worrying won't fix anything and will take away from your enjoyment of an amazing vehicle.
05-14-2019, 08:39 AM
#19
Read the FAQ? Nobody knows for sure, although most sources agree 1999 and before had dual row. Some 2000 had dual row, but there is no way to know without disassembly. Nobody knows the failure rates either, despite some fact like percentages that get thrown around frequently. IMO, the best bet is to either upgrade the bearing, or if you chose not to, just don't worry about it and accept the risk. Worrying won't fix anything and will take away from your enjoyment of an amazing vehicle.
05-14-2019, 10:49 AM
#20
Burning Brakes
The eventual failure rate of ball bearings is 100%. Bore scoring is also an eventual failure mode in the M96 and M97 engines. The 9A1 engines were the first DFI (direct fuel injection) engines, and they have their weaknesses too, including buildup of crud on the intake valves stems. Every mechanical component will have failure modes.
Pick the design you like and get a thorough PPI before you buy. I bought a 99 C2 two years ago and am very happy with it. It's used mostly as a track car now. I have been thinking about buying a Cayman as my next DD.
Pick the design you like and get a thorough PPI before you buy. I bought a 99 C2 two years ago and am very happy with it. It's used mostly as a track car now. I have been thinking about buying a Cayman as my next DD.
05-14-2019, 11:35 AM
#21
Rennlist Member
The daul row bearing can be found in later models than 2000. My GF's 2001 Boxster has a daul row (nobody knows for sure when).
Some people prefer the 9X7 interior over the 9X6. I personally don't. I feel the 9X6 interior will stand the test of time much better, especially with full leather option.
The 9X7 seats are more comfortable imo than the 9X6, but I like the look of the earlier seats.
Nothing beats the sound of the motor right behind you like the Cayman/Boxty (with an exhaust it's visceral).
The Cayman is on rails, with stock (base) suspension. Haven't tracked it, but I have not yet pushed the front end on public roads.
The 2.7L in the base cars is considered the heartiest of all the M96/M97 engines. Rarely is bore score an issue with these, and generally lower failure. And, it's an absolute blast of an engine to wring out. "Slow" car fast > then fast car slow.
My single data point research tells me that my 996 cars seem to have better build quality than my 987.
Bottom line for me.. If I had to only have one P-car, it would be a 911.
.02
Some people prefer the 9X7 interior over the 9X6. I personally don't. I feel the 9X6 interior will stand the test of time much better, especially with full leather option.
The 9X7 seats are more comfortable imo than the 9X6, but I like the look of the earlier seats.
Nothing beats the sound of the motor right behind you like the Cayman/Boxty (with an exhaust it's visceral).
The Cayman is on rails, with stock (base) suspension. Haven't tracked it, but I have not yet pushed the front end on public roads.
The 2.7L in the base cars is considered the heartiest of all the M96/M97 engines. Rarely is bore score an issue with these, and generally lower failure. And, it's an absolute blast of an engine to wring out. "Slow" car fast > then fast car slow.
My single data point research tells me that my 996 cars seem to have better build quality than my 987.
Bottom line for me.. If I had to only have one P-car, it would be a 911.
.02
05-14-2019, 11:50 AM
#22
Instructor
The difference for me was the legroom. I just couldn’t find enough in the Cayman. I was able to remove the lower console and use the GT2 finish panel on my 2000 Boxster S. This gave me the needed legroom. That’s not an option on the Cayman, which makes me sad. I really love the mid-engine dynamic of the 986S but would rather have the roof over my head. The 996 allows this option for me. At present, I’m shopping for a 996. Need to finalize the sale of my C5 Corvette first.
05-14-2019, 12:28 PM
#23
IMO that's probably the best advice I've seen on this topic yet.
05-14-2019, 05:35 PM
#24
Just thought folks would be interested...I asked my local Porsche dealer what it would cost to replace the IMS in a 2000 Carrera. Their response:
You recently ask for an estimate for replacing the IMS bearing on a 2000 911. We here at Porsche Madison do not perform that service. Due to the fact that less than 1% of all vehicle ever have the issue. I would suggest that you have a pre-purchase inspection performed before buying the vehicle. If the vehicle is local. We would be happy to perform this inspection for you.
You recently ask for an estimate for replacing the IMS bearing on a 2000 911. We here at Porsche Madison do not perform that service. Due to the fact that less than 1% of all vehicle ever have the issue. I would suggest that you have a pre-purchase inspection performed before buying the vehicle. If the vehicle is local. We would be happy to perform this inspection for you.
05-14-2019, 09:07 PM
#25
Just thought folks would be interested...I asked my local Porsche dealer what it would cost to replace the IMS in a 2000 Carrera. Their response:
You recently ask for an estimate for replacing the IMS bearing on a 2000 911. We here at Porsche Madison do not perform that service. Due to the fact that less than 1% of all vehicle ever have the issue. I would suggest that you have a pre-purchase inspection performed before buying the vehicle. If the vehicle is local. We would be happy to perform this inspection for you.
You recently ask for an estimate for replacing the IMS bearing on a 2000 911. We here at Porsche Madison do not perform that service. Due to the fact that less than 1% of all vehicle ever have the issue. I would suggest that you have a pre-purchase inspection performed before buying the vehicle. If the vehicle is local. We would be happy to perform this inspection for you.
05-14-2019, 09:28 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
Just thought folks would be interested...I asked my local Porsche dealer what it would cost to replace the IMS in a 2000 Carrera. Their response:
You recently ask for an estimate for replacing the IMS bearing on a 2000 911. We here at Porsche Madison do not perform that service. Due to the fact that less than 1% of all vehicle ever have the issue. I would suggest that you have a pre-purchase inspection performed before buying the vehicle. If the vehicle is local. We would be happy to perform this inspection for you.
You recently ask for an estimate for replacing the IMS bearing on a 2000 911. We here at Porsche Madison do not perform that service. Due to the fact that less than 1% of all vehicle ever have the issue. I would suggest that you have a pre-purchase inspection performed before buying the vehicle. If the vehicle is local. We would be happy to perform this inspection for you.
05-15-2019, 01:04 AM
#27
Rennlist Member
Just thought folks would be interested...I asked my local Porsche dealer what it would cost to replace the IMS in a 2000 Carrera. Their response:
You recently ask for an estimate for replacing the IMS bearing on a 2000 911. We here at Porsche Madison do not perform that service. Due to the fact that less than 1% of all vehicle ever have the issue. I would suggest that you have a pre-purchase inspection performed before buying the vehicle. If the vehicle is local. We would be happy to perform this inspection for you.
You recently ask for an estimate for replacing the IMS bearing on a 2000 911. We here at Porsche Madison do not perform that service. Due to the fact that less than 1% of all vehicle ever have the issue. I would suggest that you have a pre-purchase inspection performed before buying the vehicle. If the vehicle is local. We would be happy to perform this inspection for you.
I agree - I think Porsche Madison's angle is they want the 2000 to blow up so they can put him in a new 718
05-15-2019, 09:54 AM
#28
Just thought folks would be interested...I asked my local Porsche dealer what it would cost to replace the IMS in a 2000 Carrera. Their response:
You recently ask for an estimate for replacing the IMS bearing on a 2000 911. We here at Porsche Madison do not perform that service. Due to the fact that less than 1% of all vehicle ever have the issue. I would suggest that you have a pre-purchase inspection performed before buying the vehicle. If the vehicle is local. We would be happy to perform this inspection for you.
You recently ask for an estimate for replacing the IMS bearing on a 2000 911. We here at Porsche Madison do not perform that service. Due to the fact that less than 1% of all vehicle ever have the issue. I would suggest that you have a pre-purchase inspection performed before buying the vehicle. If the vehicle is local. We would be happy to perform this inspection for you.
05-15-2019, 09:56 AM
#29
Bingo! That's why I don't trust Porsche when they speak about the intermediate shaft bearing(s). You'd think by now they'd admit the failure after three versions of the bearings were designed.
05-16-2019, 07:09 AM
#30
Anyways, I've driven most of the 987 Cayman variants. Always walked away impressed thinking someday maybe I'll own one. Technically better than a 996? No doubt. Back in 2015 I drove my first 996. A crisp low mileage 2000 C2 Zenith Blue Coupe 6mt. Immediately knew I was going to own one someday. It was everything I loved about my 964 in a modern package. That flat six note coming from all the out back. A clean seek 911 silhouette. Glancing back to see the distinctive rear seats that hark back to day 1, just like the back of the 356 I rode in at 5 years old that left such a lasting impression. There's just something enchanting about the 996/911 with that lineage that you don't get from the Cayman.