PPI Question -- Dropping the Oil Pan
04-08-2019, 01:24 PM
#1
Track Day
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PPI Question -- Dropping the Oil Pan
Is dropping the oil pan customary for a PPI? I just talked to a high end Porsche independent and they told me they don't normally do that. I don't know how you would check for metal shavings, etc. in the oil unless you did that. The PCA video on PPIs suggest that you do that so I am a little unsure of next steps? Any experience out there with this?
04-08-2019, 01:50 PM
#2
RL Community Team
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Not for a standard PPI, but I would recommend doing it.
It will cost you extra, because of the time involved and the curing time before they can get the car out the door.
While it is off, I would have the bores scoped from below too.
You might as well while it is open.
It will cost you extra, because of the time involved and the curing time before they can get the car out the door.
While it is off, I would have the bores scoped from below too.
You might as well while it is open.
04-08-2019, 02:46 PM
#4
This is something I've been struggling with and as someone who was bitten by a PPI that did not drop the sump cover, here are my thoughts.
For the background, I dropped the cover *after* I owned it and found parts of a timing chain roller. Fortunately, Jake Raby and the team at Flat6 came to the rescue and I have a functioning engine now that did't blow up on me.
So now for my thoughts:
It turns out on mine there was a roller missing on BOTH of the cam chains (3 chain engine). Where did the other roller go? I now suspect someone else dropped the cover and removed the parts somewhere along the way and decided that this problem should be someone else's problem.
I got lucky and found the second broken roller. So here's the problem. If you are not the first person to drop the cover, then the evidence will have already been removed.
I agree that scoping the cylinder bores from the sump side is a great step (since scoring starts at the crank end of the bore, that's the first place it will be visible.
But if someone has dropped the cover, cleaned it out and changed the oil recently, then you are probably not going to see evidence of wear metals, chain guides, etc. when you drop the cover.
So drop the cover or not, my advice to you is plan on spending a minimum of $6000 in engine repairs when you buy an M96 from an unknown party with no IMS replacement proof. I ended up spending twice that because of the timing chains and the "while the engine is out" items (clutch, AOS, water pump, coolant expansion tank). I also
I'm curious if the market will ever come up with a way of reliably vetting these M96 engines. At the moment, purchasing one is just a roll of the dice--there is definitely some inspection you can do to determine if the engine is bad, but there's nothing you can do to verify that the engine is not about to fail.
At a minimum I would have the cylinders bore scoped from the top. You can't visually inspect the IMS so I'd expect proof of IMS work (and verify it with L&N by serial number). And you can't visually inspect the timing chains, which is another weak point in these engines.
For the background, I dropped the cover *after* I owned it and found parts of a timing chain roller. Fortunately, Jake Raby and the team at Flat6 came to the rescue and I have a functioning engine now that did't blow up on me.
So now for my thoughts:
It turns out on mine there was a roller missing on BOTH of the cam chains (3 chain engine). Where did the other roller go? I now suspect someone else dropped the cover and removed the parts somewhere along the way and decided that this problem should be someone else's problem.
I got lucky and found the second broken roller. So here's the problem. If you are not the first person to drop the cover, then the evidence will have already been removed.
I agree that scoping the cylinder bores from the sump side is a great step (since scoring starts at the crank end of the bore, that's the first place it will be visible.
But if someone has dropped the cover, cleaned it out and changed the oil recently, then you are probably not going to see evidence of wear metals, chain guides, etc. when you drop the cover.
So drop the cover or not, my advice to you is plan on spending a minimum of $6000 in engine repairs when you buy an M96 from an unknown party with no IMS replacement proof. I ended up spending twice that because of the timing chains and the "while the engine is out" items (clutch, AOS, water pump, coolant expansion tank). I also
I'm curious if the market will ever come up with a way of reliably vetting these M96 engines. At the moment, purchasing one is just a roll of the dice--there is definitely some inspection you can do to determine if the engine is bad, but there's nothing you can do to verify that the engine is not about to fail.
At a minimum I would have the cylinders bore scoped from the top. You can't visually inspect the IMS so I'd expect proof of IMS work (and verify it with L&N by serial number). And you can't visually inspect the timing chains, which is another weak point in these engines.