First Porsche
11-22-2018 | 09:27 AM
#16
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 164
Likes: 1
Thanks all! It was not a straight trade. I didn’t get a great deal nor did I get a bad deal. Having spent a little time in the car business, I knew what to expect (I paid $14.02 more than I’d planned).
I do plan to install an exhaust (Tubi, in particular), Öhlins R&T, 245/35 front tires, and 15mm spacers all around for an effective offset that is almost the same as the 6.2 GT3. I’ll drive it for a few months first, though, and get a really good feel for how it was delievered new. With these miles, it’s like getting in a time machine every time I drive it and I’d like to have that experience for a while longer. I would like to do a 4 liter build eventually as well, but that will be years down the road.
As for the IMS: I have done a lot of reading on the topic and have decided that the IMSB does not need any attention at the moment. I understand the concern about low mileage and I am a little worried, but I’m going to operate under the assumption that my car is part of the 92% of these things that is just fine. At some point in the relatively near future, however, I do plan on dropping the oil pan and making sure I’ve made the right choice. If I get in there and find evidence the IMSB is failing, then I guess the 4 liter build will just have to be placed higher on the priority list. Heaven forbid (I say sarcastically).
Manual or Tip: I’ll preface this by saying that my E92 M3 was equipped with the DCT and I would never have even considered buying that car with the manual. The E39 M5 sourced manual trans in that car feels atrocious; if the whole point of the manual in this modern age of dual clutch transmissions is to increase driver involvement, shouldn’t that involvement be pleasant? Shifting an E9x M with a manual is anything but pleasant in my opinion. The F8x, on the other hand, has a lovely manual transmission. All that said, I could not have lived with the Tiptronic. PDK? All damn day, especially over the 7-speed manual. Tip? I need my transmission to be in the gear I want it to be in a lot faster than the Tiptronic will ever be able to accommodate. I plan to do a shifter and cable kit to tighten up the feel a bit more, but right out of the box this manual is pretty fantastic. Not the best I’ve ever driven, but pretty good.
Thr biggest problem I have with the car right now is a little dash rattle. It stops when I put my hand pretty much anywhere on the dash, so locating it will be difficult. If there are normal rattle spots y’all know about, I’m all ears.
edit* I feel it’s worth mentioning that I am very mechanically capable. I’ve done everything from lube tech at a Honda dealership to helicopter maintenance on two different airframes in the Army. If I have to, I should be plenty capable of addressing any IMS issues which may present themselves. These cars aren’t that hard to work on, especially now that there is so much documented on that topic. I’m in the camp that thinks the IMSB is blown way out of proportion. I got my M3 in March of ‘15 with 24k miles and traded it with 78k last Tuesday. I never replaced the rod bearings and it didn’t grenade on me as much as that community was convinced it probably would. The Internet forum has a tendency to blow things a bit out of proportion.
I do plan to install an exhaust (Tubi, in particular), Öhlins R&T, 245/35 front tires, and 15mm spacers all around for an effective offset that is almost the same as the 6.2 GT3. I’ll drive it for a few months first, though, and get a really good feel for how it was delievered new. With these miles, it’s like getting in a time machine every time I drive it and I’d like to have that experience for a while longer. I would like to do a 4 liter build eventually as well, but that will be years down the road.
As for the IMS: I have done a lot of reading on the topic and have decided that the IMSB does not need any attention at the moment. I understand the concern about low mileage and I am a little worried, but I’m going to operate under the assumption that my car is part of the 92% of these things that is just fine. At some point in the relatively near future, however, I do plan on dropping the oil pan and making sure I’ve made the right choice. If I get in there and find evidence the IMSB is failing, then I guess the 4 liter build will just have to be placed higher on the priority list. Heaven forbid (I say sarcastically).
Manual or Tip: I’ll preface this by saying that my E92 M3 was equipped with the DCT and I would never have even considered buying that car with the manual. The E39 M5 sourced manual trans in that car feels atrocious; if the whole point of the manual in this modern age of dual clutch transmissions is to increase driver involvement, shouldn’t that involvement be pleasant? Shifting an E9x M with a manual is anything but pleasant in my opinion. The F8x, on the other hand, has a lovely manual transmission. All that said, I could not have lived with the Tiptronic. PDK? All damn day, especially over the 7-speed manual. Tip? I need my transmission to be in the gear I want it to be in a lot faster than the Tiptronic will ever be able to accommodate. I plan to do a shifter and cable kit to tighten up the feel a bit more, but right out of the box this manual is pretty fantastic. Not the best I’ve ever driven, but pretty good.
Thr biggest problem I have with the car right now is a little dash rattle. It stops when I put my hand pretty much anywhere on the dash, so locating it will be difficult. If there are normal rattle spots y’all know about, I’m all ears.
edit* I feel it’s worth mentioning that I am very mechanically capable. I’ve done everything from lube tech at a Honda dealership to helicopter maintenance on two different airframes in the Army. If I have to, I should be plenty capable of addressing any IMS issues which may present themselves. These cars aren’t that hard to work on, especially now that there is so much documented on that topic. I’m in the camp that thinks the IMSB is blown way out of proportion. I got my M3 in March of ‘15 with 24k miles and traded it with 78k last Tuesday. I never replaced the rod bearings and it didn’t grenade on me as much as that community was convinced it probably would. The Internet forum has a tendency to blow things a bit out of proportion.
Last edited by JoeyCapranica; 11-22-2018 at 09:35 AM. Reason: Adding
11-22-2018 | 09:48 AM
#18
Intermediate
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 48
Likes: 3
I did the Fister mod on my exhaust and it is perfect, no drone but loud over 3,000 rpms.
I also bought a really low mileage C4S and was worried about all the stories I hear. But it's turning out to be a great car for the money.
I also bought a really low mileage C4S and was worried about all the stories I hear. But it's turning out to be a great car for the money.
11-22-2018 | 10:25 AM
#20
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 164
Likes: 1
Excellent question. I can sum it up in one word: light. That M3 might just be the best all around car I’ve ever driven (well, considering price...the 991 is definitely better), but it’s 3700 pounds and it feels every bit as heavy as that number would suggest. Losing 700 pounds is amazing. Also, the E92 is a big car with big, heavy, long doors. It is so nice to open and close these 996 doors after 3.5+ years of that M3. There’s a hundred less horsepower and it’s apparent, but combine the weight loss and the fact that it only has 20lb-ft less torque than the M3 did, it feels just as fast overall.
It’s funny, especially after what I said about transmissions in that last post, but it did/does feel nice to be in a manual again, but at the same time I find myself fantasizing about this car with a PDK and paddles. I have to admit: it’s fun heel toeing again after years of paddles and I like being able to coast in neutral, which one cannot do with the MDCT.
The size difference on the exterior is great. It’s so nimble and it fits through gaps the M3 wouldn’t have. The interior, however, does not benefit from the reduction in size from the M3. I really, really liked the inside of that M3: the seats were excellent, the steering wheel is probably my favorite factory equipped steering wheel ever, the back seats had plenty of space for normal sized people, the trunk was enormous, the cabin was relatively quiet. Contrastly, the 996 interior, while not bad by any stretch, is a generation older than my M3 was, far smaller, and the seats are...I don’t want to offend, but I don’t think the seats in this car are anything to write home about, and the cabin noise is definitely noticeably louder.
There’s also the lack of adjustment in both the seats and the wheel. I was worried about that, but this car might have the best driving position of any car I’ve ever driven. The M3 had plenty of adjustability, but I could never get it just right. Within seconds in the 996, I settled into a perfect driving position. That is extremely important to me and it obviously was to the 996 design team as well. I’m 5’9” and about 175 pounds with a 32” waist, if that helps give some reference.
Aesthetics, I have to give to the M3. But it’s a close call. The M3 just has a more “designy” overall aesthetic, while the 996 is screaming, “FUNCTION!!” Form, as it’s said, does follow function, though, and the 996 Carrera is a gorgeous automobile to my eyes. edit* After installing lowering springs and spacers, this car looks better than the M3.
Handling is completely different. It’s so weird not having any weight to speak of on the front axle. I can feel the rear digging in coming out of a corner while the front end, while still feeling relatively precise and confidence-inspiring, feels like it’s just skating across the pavement. It is an incredibly odd sensation that I think will be somewhat mitigated with the 245-section tires I plan to put up front.
Sound: the S65B40 in the M3 sounds ****ing awesome. I’m American and I have always loved V8s and the sounds they make. Being an adult with some life experience now, I enjoy some refinement. The sound from that M3 was a good blend of raw and refined in a V8 and I think the same could be said of the 996 Carrera for an H6. The M96.03 doesn’t quite have the exotic sound of a 991 GT3, but it certainly doesn’t sound bland or ordinary. I am looking forward to the addition of a Tubi exhaust, though.
Overall, I am extremely happy with the move. Like I said, it feels pretty lateral in some ways and I will always want an E9x M and as soon as I can have it without getting rid of this, it’ll be so. But if I had to choose between the two, and I did, I would (still) choose the 996 Carrera.
It’s funny, especially after what I said about transmissions in that last post, but it did/does feel nice to be in a manual again, but at the same time I find myself fantasizing about this car with a PDK and paddles. I have to admit: it’s fun heel toeing again after years of paddles and I like being able to coast in neutral, which one cannot do with the MDCT.
The size difference on the exterior is great. It’s so nimble and it fits through gaps the M3 wouldn’t have. The interior, however, does not benefit from the reduction in size from the M3. I really, really liked the inside of that M3: the seats were excellent, the steering wheel is probably my favorite factory equipped steering wheel ever, the back seats had plenty of space for normal sized people, the trunk was enormous, the cabin was relatively quiet. Contrastly, the 996 interior, while not bad by any stretch, is a generation older than my M3 was, far smaller, and the seats are...I don’t want to offend, but I don’t think the seats in this car are anything to write home about, and the cabin noise is definitely noticeably louder.
There’s also the lack of adjustment in both the seats and the wheel. I was worried about that, but this car might have the best driving position of any car I’ve ever driven. The M3 had plenty of adjustability, but I could never get it just right. Within seconds in the 996, I settled into a perfect driving position. That is extremely important to me and it obviously was to the 996 design team as well. I’m 5’9” and about 175 pounds with a 32” waist, if that helps give some reference.
Handling is completely different. It’s so weird not having any weight to speak of on the front axle. I can feel the rear digging in coming out of a corner while the front end, while still feeling relatively precise and confidence-inspiring, feels like it’s just skating across the pavement. It is an incredibly odd sensation that I think will be somewhat mitigated with the 245-section tires I plan to put up front.
Sound: the S65B40 in the M3 sounds ****ing awesome. I’m American and I have always loved V8s and the sounds they make. Being an adult with some life experience now, I enjoy some refinement. The sound from that M3 was a good blend of raw and refined in a V8 and I think the same could be said of the 996 Carrera for an H6. The M96.03 doesn’t quite have the exotic sound of a 991 GT3, but it certainly doesn’t sound bland or ordinary. I am looking forward to the addition of a Tubi exhaust, though.
Overall, I am extremely happy with the move. Like I said, it feels pretty lateral in some ways and I will always want an E9x M and as soon as I can have it without getting rid of this, it’ll be so. But if I had to choose between the two, and I did, I would (still) choose the 996 Carrera.
Last edited by JoeyCapranica; 01-04-2019 at 12:12 AM.
12-13-2018 | 04:04 PM
#22
Racer
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 398
Likes: 61
From: Northern CT
I see from the shot at your house, you are down on the shore (I'm up on the Mass line). For paint correction, I went to the guys at Automobilia, in West Haven....they do ceramic coating and Xpel films, too...they did a nice job on my Ocean Blue Metallic when I had the ceramic coat done. I'll be honest, I am not sure if I would do the ceramic coat again or not, but their detailing/paint correction work was great. I know you are in the "IMS issue is overblown" camp, but your car is definitely not in the "its lasted this long" category with its low mileage, I'd definitely reconsider addressing it....its in the low use danger zone. Definitely keep an eye on the cooling system and the rest of the rubber...it is seals and rubber where you are likely to feel some pain due to the low usage. If you've read enough about the IMS, even if you wrench yourself, a rebuild is nothing to sneeze at cost wise.
12-13-2018 | 04:42 PM
#23
Rennlist Member
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,154
Likes: 39
From: Naples, FL/Sapphire, NC
I see from the shot at your house, you are down on the shore (I'm up on the Mass line). For paint correction, I went to the guys at Automobilia, in West Haven....they do ceramic coating and Xpel films, too...they did a nice job on my Ocean Blue Metallic when I had the ceramic coat done. I'll be honest, I am not sure if I would do the ceramic coat again or not, but their detailing/paint correction work was great. I know you are in the "IMS issue is overblown" camp, but your car is definitely not in the "its lasted this long" category with its low mileage, I'd definitely reconsider addressing it....its in the low use danger zone. Definitely keep an eye on the cooling system and the rest of the rubber...it is seals and rubber where you are likely to feel some pain due to the low usage. If you've read enough about the IMS, even if you wrench yourself, a rebuild is nothing to sneeze at cost wise.
Yeah, that level of paranoia is over the top but...
Welcome to the funhouse of 996 ownership!
TC
12-13-2018 | 08:56 PM
#24
Racer
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 398
Likes: 61
From: Northern CT
Last edited by MadIrish; 12-14-2018 at 10:22 AM.
12-14-2018 | 01:21 AM
#25
Rennlist Member
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,154
Likes: 39
From: Naples, FL/Sapphire, NC
That level of paranoia?? Did I say the sky was falling...simply said he should "reconsider". If you think an old car with low mileage is a recipe for troublefree ownership, I'll take my "paranoia". My comment on not being in "it has lasted this long category" isn't a paranoiac one, either.
996 Low Miles=Red Flag.
TC
12-14-2018 | 03:00 AM
#26
Pro
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 584
Likes: 312
new FabSpeed x-pipe ready for installation!
12-14-2018 | 09:19 AM
#27
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 164
Likes: 1
I’ll be dropping the sump plate and cutting open the oil filter next weekend. I understand the points being made about seals and sitting too long and all that. I appreciate the concern. If there were any seals leaking enough to cause concern, I would’ve seen it by now. If not, I’ll see it next weekend and address whatever needs addressing.
There is no amount of worrying or relatively inexpensive preventative fixes that will prevent the IMSB from grenading. If the qualification process for the installation of parts which were designed to remove the risk of IMSB failure show that there is no IMSB failure imminent, then there is no way to prove those parts’ actual effectiveness in preventing IMSB failure. The ONLY way to really ensure an M96.03 like the one in my car is almost definitely not going to have IMSB issues is to disassemble the engine and rebuild it while replacing all the parts which are known causes of catastrophic failure.
Not a single product on the market will prevent an IMSB failure. You can all tell yourselves those products help; to say so shows me you don’t know what you’re talking about or you’re trying to sell me something or both.
If it puts minds at ease, I am a fan of the IMS Solution and will be installing one eventually. When it’s installed will depend on what I find when I drop the sump plate and cut open the filter. I’m hoping it’s not for many years.
If someone can point me to any evidence at all that IMSB failure can be prevented by any other method than an engine rebuild then I’d obviously reconsider. But I’ve been looking for such evidence and there doesn’t seem to be any - just a lot of conjecture and salesmanship, and even that is wrapped with inordinate amounts of typical car forum ignorance.
But hey, if you tell every single 996 owner that their IMSB is going to cause them grief, you’ll get to say “I told you so” to at least some of them. Hopefully you don’t get to say it to me. But even if you do, I wouldn’t have changed anything I’ve done or am planning to do.
There is no amount of worrying or relatively inexpensive preventative fixes that will prevent the IMSB from grenading. If the qualification process for the installation of parts which were designed to remove the risk of IMSB failure show that there is no IMSB failure imminent, then there is no way to prove those parts’ actual effectiveness in preventing IMSB failure. The ONLY way to really ensure an M96.03 like the one in my car is almost definitely not going to have IMSB issues is to disassemble the engine and rebuild it while replacing all the parts which are known causes of catastrophic failure.
Not a single product on the market will prevent an IMSB failure. You can all tell yourselves those products help; to say so shows me you don’t know what you’re talking about or you’re trying to sell me something or both.
If it puts minds at ease, I am a fan of the IMS Solution and will be installing one eventually. When it’s installed will depend on what I find when I drop the sump plate and cut open the filter. I’m hoping it’s not for many years.
If someone can point me to any evidence at all that IMSB failure can be prevented by any other method than an engine rebuild then I’d obviously reconsider. But I’ve been looking for such evidence and there doesn’t seem to be any - just a lot of conjecture and salesmanship, and even that is wrapped with inordinate amounts of typical car forum ignorance.
But hey, if you tell every single 996 owner that their IMSB is going to cause them grief, you’ll get to say “I told you so” to at least some of them. Hopefully you don’t get to say it to me. But even if you do, I wouldn’t have changed anything I’ve done or am planning to do.
12-14-2018 | 10:18 AM
#28
Rennlist Member
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,808
Likes: 1,186
From: L.I. NY
"There is no amount of worrying or relatively inexpensive preventative fixes that will prevent the IMSB from grenading. If the qualification process for the installation of parts which were designed to remove the risk of IMSB failure show that there is no IMSB failure imminent, then there is no way to prove those parts’ actual effectiveness in preventing IMSB failure. The ONLY way to really ensure an M96.03 like the one in my car is almost definitely not going to have IMSB issues is to disassemble the engine and rebuild it while replacing all the parts which are known causes of catastrophic failure.
Not a single product on the market will prevent an IMSB failure. You can all tell yourselves those products help; to say so shows me you don’t know what you’re talking about or you’re trying to sell me something or both.
If it puts minds at ease, I am a fan of the IMS Solution and will be installing one eventually. When it’s installed will depend on what I find when I drop the sump plate and cut open the filter. I’m hoping it’s not for many years."
^^ Lots of circular logic going on here...So you're going to wait until you find debris in the sump before you change the IMS bearing? Makes zero sense. The IMS Solution WILL prevent bearing failure - period (plain bearings in these motors just don't fail...and yes, you've got to install it in a healthy engine). Unfortunately, "The Solution" doesn't address any of the other 26 modes of failure inherent to the M96. You can hope all you want, that won't change how the engine wears - especially when you're running it up to 6500 rpm so you can feel all that extra power from the X-pipe. Frequent oil changes (4000mi.) with a high quality oil is your best insurance against engine problems. Good luck with 'er, and do keep us appraised of any future upgrades/issues.
Not a single product on the market will prevent an IMSB failure. You can all tell yourselves those products help; to say so shows me you don’t know what you’re talking about or you’re trying to sell me something or both.
If it puts minds at ease, I am a fan of the IMS Solution and will be installing one eventually. When it’s installed will depend on what I find when I drop the sump plate and cut open the filter. I’m hoping it’s not for many years."
^^ Lots of circular logic going on here...So you're going to wait until you find debris in the sump before you change the IMS bearing? Makes zero sense. The IMS Solution WILL prevent bearing failure - period (plain bearings in these motors just don't fail...and yes, you've got to install it in a healthy engine). Unfortunately, "The Solution" doesn't address any of the other 26 modes of failure inherent to the M96. You can hope all you want, that won't change how the engine wears - especially when you're running it up to 6500 rpm so you can feel all that extra power from the X-pipe. Frequent oil changes (4000mi.) with a high quality oil is your best insurance against engine problems. Good luck with 'er, and do keep us appraised of any future upgrades/issues.
12-14-2018 | 11:47 AM
#30
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 164
Likes: 1
Unfortunately, "The Solution" doesn't address any of the other 26 modes of failure inherent to the M96. You can hope all you want, that won't change how the engine wears - especially when you're running it up to 6500 rpm so you can feel all that extra power from the X-pipe.
Look guys, I’m not Jake Raby. I don’t have a giant family property with a huge shop and every tool imaginable. If I did, then I would probably be doing the exact same thing he is doing and I would probably go a whole lot deeper into working on this car when it doesn’t need it. In fact, as soon as I can I plan on taking his class and building myself a really nice 4 liter. But, for now and the foreseeable future, this is my only car and I live in an apartment with a parking garage (I was, when I bought the car a month ago, in a townhome with a garage and a compressor for the first time in a few years, but that didn’t work out and it’s a long story).
I can appreciate that there are a lot of people that worry about the IMSB. If I hadn’t read/asked/researched as much about it as I had and didn’t have the automotive and aviation mechanical experience I do, then I’d probably be a whole lot more worried than I am. But, as long as I don’t see/hear/feel any pending disaster, I’m just going to enjoy this car. If it breaks, I will fix it and it will be expensive and life will suck for a short period of time.
As much as I HATE this expression when used in the wrong context, it is very appropriate here: it’s just a car. It is a very, very special car, but a car nonetheless. I know of its issues and they will be monitored. I appreciate the concern. I can assure you this car will be well cared for, even if it’s not the way the 996 RL board thinks it should be done.
Last edited by JoeyCapranica; 01-04-2019 at 12:23 AM.