Value of '03 C4S?
01-12-2018, 04:57 PM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
Value of '03 C4S?
I think you guys hate these questions, but I'm looking at an '03 C4S and wondering how far off they are in their asking price ($25K).
It is a pretty basic spec C4S, not a lot of options, and is completely stock. It has 109,00 miles, good cosmetic condition, some deferred maintenance: probably needs suspension work, IMSB replaced by the same dealer in 2015, weeping fluid at bell housing (I'm guessing RMS). It's not nearby, so I can't put hands on it before making an offer. They seem to be open to offers. It is at a dealership, but given age/mileage I assume they won't stand behind the vehicle beyond the edge of the parking lot.
I'm not worried about the maintenance, it's just parts for me, I do all my own work, and have done everything it might need.
KBB and Edmunds have dealer values in the upper teens. They never seem to be accurate for P-Cars.
It feels like a $19-20K car to me, at best.
Any insight or guidance?
It is a pretty basic spec C4S, not a lot of options, and is completely stock. It has 109,00 miles, good cosmetic condition, some deferred maintenance: probably needs suspension work, IMSB replaced by the same dealer in 2015, weeping fluid at bell housing (I'm guessing RMS). It's not nearby, so I can't put hands on it before making an offer. They seem to be open to offers. It is at a dealership, but given age/mileage I assume they won't stand behind the vehicle beyond the edge of the parking lot.
I'm not worried about the maintenance, it's just parts for me, I do all my own work, and have done everything it might need.
KBB and Edmunds have dealer values in the upper teens. They never seem to be accurate for P-Cars.
It feels like a $19-20K car to me, at best.
Any insight or guidance?
01-12-2018, 05:20 PM
#2
Rennlist Member
cds.... I bought an 04 C4S in October of '17 and was tracking prices for a while. I used https://www.iseecars.com/vin as a reference point in my research on pricing and found it useful.
I also did a quick search here: https://www.truecar.com/used-cars-fo...let-carrera-4s
I believe $20K is prob a fair price, for $25K it seems you can get an example with lower miles and better options... Good luck with your search! Great that you can wrench on your own!
I also did a quick search here: https://www.truecar.com/used-cars-fo...let-carrera-4s
I believe $20K is prob a fair price, for $25K it seems you can get an example with lower miles and better options... Good luck with your search! Great that you can wrench on your own!
01-12-2018, 06:04 PM
#3
Rennlist Member
Ditto on $20,000 being a fair price, maybe even go wild and start even lower like $18,000 - $19,000. Gather some quick documentation on what it would cost a shop to repair these things wrong with the car as justification for the lower offer. The seller doesn't need to know you are a handy wrench and can save money by doing your own repairs. Maybe call a local shop and see if they have any quick estimates they can provide?
01-12-2018, 07:49 PM
#4
Good luck getting it for 18K-20K. That's probably what the dealer paid for it. Sometimes I think some of you guys are delusional on 996 prices, C4S models especially. Just my opinion. 24-25K is fair but on the higher end of the spectrum. Again, my opinion based on pricing I've seen in the upper Midwest.
01-12-2018, 07:55 PM
#5
Rennlist Member
Before I commented I looked up comps nationwide. Asking prices are also set high, and most of us pay well below the ask. C4S's with over 100,000 miles, right now, are asking $20-22k, reasonably. Yes, some are asking $25k, as well, but there are 70-90K mile cars competing at that price, as th964 had implied.
01-12-2018, 08:08 PM
#6
Rennlist Member
Just in case you missed what everyone else has already said, $20k is a good deal provided the car is solid and ticks all your boxes.
I paid just a bit more for an '03 C4s in September with a few less miles and from the previous owner. Well optioned, had a lot of add ons, PPI revealed it needed a clutch and brakes otherwise solid.
I paid just a bit more for an '03 C4s in September with a few less miles and from the previous owner. Well optioned, had a lot of add ons, PPI revealed it needed a clutch and brakes otherwise solid.
01-12-2018, 08:17 PM
#7
Rennlist Member
A buddy of mine just paid 25k for a 120k mile C4S cab, tip. A book of well documented service from new. 6GT3 wheels other than that stock.
He is doing the IMSB this weekend, all fluids, water pump thermostat, disc and pads. He will have 30k in car when done. It was the color he wanted. He had been looking for a long time. He wanted a west coast car that hadnt been driven hard in winter rain and snow. So, he admits he paid top dollar.
He is doing the IMSB this weekend, all fluids, water pump thermostat, disc and pads. He will have 30k in car when done. It was the color he wanted. He had been looking for a long time. He wanted a west coast car that hadnt been driven hard in winter rain and snow. So, he admits he paid top dollar.
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01-12-2018, 08:34 PM
#8
Drifting
Thread Starter
Thank you for the perspectives. Great information and helps me dial in an offer.
I’m okay with being delusional. As a buyer, I don’t need the car at all, so that puts me in the best position. I have more cars than I could possibly need, including a perfectly servicable 996. If the deal is right, I can buy, and if it isn’t, I can keep looking.
If I can get it for a reasonable price, it might be a nice addition. I’m fond of the wide body. Although, I’m not so fond I’d pay extra for a high mile example when other lower mile examples come up regularly in the same price range. I wouldn’t classify this as a rarity or especially desirable car...
Thanks again for the input, advice, pointers and links.
I’m okay with being delusional. As a buyer, I don’t need the car at all, so that puts me in the best position. I have more cars than I could possibly need, including a perfectly servicable 996. If the deal is right, I can buy, and if it isn’t, I can keep looking.
If I can get it for a reasonable price, it might be a nice addition. I’m fond of the wide body. Although, I’m not so fond I’d pay extra for a high mile example when other lower mile examples come up regularly in the same price range. I wouldn’t classify this as a rarity or especially desirable car...
Thanks again for the input, advice, pointers and links.
01-13-2018, 11:47 AM
#9
Three Wheelin'
Overpriced for sure if it needs suspension work (add $3,000) and possibly RMS. This is not a car you want to buy from a distant dealer without a proper inspection. You cannot believe ANYTHING a dealer tells you. Everything needs to be verified by an independent experienced Porsche specialist.
01-13-2018, 03:30 PM
#10
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^100% right
It's my experience that dealers pay pennies on the dollar for their cars, especially on a trade-in. Maybe a little more at auction prices. My guess is if they are asking 25k they are into it for no more than 12k. It sounds like you could easily walk away from this car... I say punch them in the gut with your offer and make it clear you'll walk. Worst they can say is no.
It's my experience that dealers pay pennies on the dollar for their cars, especially on a trade-in. Maybe a little more at auction prices. My guess is if they are asking 25k they are into it for no more than 12k. It sounds like you could easily walk away from this car... I say punch them in the gut with your offer and make it clear you'll walk. Worst they can say is no.
01-13-2018, 03:43 PM
#11
Rennlist Member
How many miles on the newer IMSB and why was it changed?
01-13-2018, 06:22 PM
#12
Drifting
Thread Starter
The IMS bearing was done in 2015 by the dealer, and the salesperson said it must have been a Porsche bearing, not aftermarket if they did it. She said “the tech that did it said it probably needs to be done again because it is leaking” which I read as the salesperson has no idea, and is either making things up, or the tech is not experienced. How could he/she possibly know without splitting it apart and physically examining - I suspect it is just as likely that it is the RMS.
If I buy the car, I’m dropping the engine, splitting the transmission off, doing a LN IMS bearing, RMS, AOS, clutch and flywheel (if needed), plugs, tubes, coils, water pump, thermostat, motor mounts, hoses as needed - you know, the usual baselining. It’s all good preventive medicine, and money/time well spent.
I’m working on lining up a PPI, and will go from there.
Thanks again, all.
If I buy the car, I’m dropping the engine, splitting the transmission off, doing a LN IMS bearing, RMS, AOS, clutch and flywheel (if needed), plugs, tubes, coils, water pump, thermostat, motor mounts, hoses as needed - you know, the usual baselining. It’s all good preventive medicine, and money/time well spent.
I’m working on lining up a PPI, and will go from there.
Thanks again, all.
01-14-2018, 11:59 PM
#13
Instructor
I don’t think it would be good if the IMS bearing “leaks”. I thought they usually go boom, not leak. Also, I thought Porsche didn’t supply IMS bearings? Could be wrong, but thought I’d read that somewhere.
01-15-2018, 12:49 PM
#14
Rennlist Member
The IMS bearing was done in 2015 by the dealer, and the salesperson said it must have been a Porsche bearing, not aftermarket if they did it. She said “the tech that did it said it probably needs to be done again because it is leaking” which I read as the salesperson has no idea, and is either making things up, or the tech is not experienced. How could he/she possibly know without splitting it apart and physically examining - I suspect it is just as likely that it is the RMS.
Prequalifying the engine prior to slapping any of the products available for the IMS is critical. I always get concerned when I hear "IMS bearing was done". Way too broad of a statement. Then followed up with "it must have been a Porsche bearing". The next line I love even more. "the tech that did it said it probably needs to be done again because it is leaking". You are spot on with your take on the tech and the salesperson.I would tread very carefully on this one. It may be just fine, but there are a lot of unanswered questions and it almost appears they are intentionally covering something up.Just my $.02.
Prequalifying the engine prior to slapping any of the products available for the IMS is critical. I always get concerned when I hear "IMS bearing was done". Way too broad of a statement. Then followed up with "it must have been a Porsche bearing". The next line I love even more. "the tech that did it said it probably needs to be done again because it is leaking". You are spot on with your take on the tech and the salesperson.I would tread very carefully on this one. It may be just fine, but there are a lot of unanswered questions and it almost appears they are intentionally covering something up.Just my $.02.
01-16-2018, 12:31 PM
#15
Racer
Try locating a P-Car Wholesaler, if you have cash in hand, you can get lucky - I am thinking $23.500 should get you a good deal with lo mileage, diamond in a rough for sure, but the joy is also in the hunt for your new best friend. I have seen C4S (02-04) in the Northeast in the range of 27-26K, but these are Dealers - Best of Luck