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Long time lurker, first time poster. I'm a died in the wool BMW guy, but have always had a 911 on my list. With the 996 market where it is, now seems like a really good time to get in. I know the model fairly well (I never buy impulsively or w/o some research), but I've come across two cars (SAME PRICE) and am a bit flummoxed as to which is the better spend..... what do y'all think?
2003 C2: Well optioned and essentially a one owner car with only 55k mi. But it's being sold by a smallish dealer (I much prefer to buy from owners).
2004 C4S: Well optioned as well but 96k mi. 8 owners, but the last two have spanned 9 years. Currently for sale by owner and he's making all the right noises (aviation background and a car dude).
I love the idea of buying a cleaner, lower mileage car with less owners (black C2), but I'm (on paper) a big fan of the C4S over the C2, at least aesthetically. Unfortunately neither come with service history, something I'm having a hard time finding (apparently you guys aren't like BMW owners, lol). It would be my first 911, so perhaps the more appropriate car to start out with is the 2WD car instead of 4WD. Same money for either one, what would you do?
Both look like good cars. I would want some service history. In my experience I needed to change the rotors at 45k miles, and then things like waterpump at 65k, suspension, AOS, RMS, clutch, flywheel and IMSB. You can factor these into the value if you know they have been done.
Servicing aside, go for the one that the options meet your taste, colour, leather etc. I would put this above 4x4 or x2 wheel drive. the 4s has a unique WB look, I went for a NB. At the end of the day they are all 911's. just make sure you get one in the colour you want. and I would strongly advise getting any service history you can. The last owner must of serviced it in their ownership. If not keep looking.
Neither, since you are not a long time "porsche guy" find a car with a long service history. If you decide to go for it anyway get a pre purchase inspection from someone who is a Porsche expert, not just some guy who does inspections.
Most important, have $5,000 in cash ready to spend on repairs and maintenance immediately. Maybe you won't need any of it. Most likely you will need all of it.
Lots of good cars are about to hit the market. Stay patient. My #1 rule is don't get emotionally invested in something you don't own. Be prepared to walk away from any car that fails any sort of inspection, even your own. If you start down the "maybe I can fix it" road, be prepared to spend every dollar of ejdoherty911's hypothetical budget.
The carfax will show how many times car has gone to a porsche dealer for service.
Spend the money and get for both, the C4S is nice body style, but it is silver.
The C2 LOOKS nice. Choose wisely Grasshopper
A PPI on either is likely. What's crazy is, both are at about the same maintenance interval. Clutch, brakes and so on are about due for the C2 and for the second time perhaps on the C4S.
Pulled carfax and window stickers on both. Both no accidents and clean history, both have crests in headrests, xeonon lights (not litronic though, is there a difference?), 3 spoke leather wheel and PSM.
C4S: Sport exhaust, full black leather, Aluminum binnacle, shifter and e-brake
C2: Black Leather (not full or partial), SS exhaust, metal door insignia, aluminum shifter and e-brake
Oh, and i fully intend on wrenching on it myself for the most part. Researching scissor lifts as we speak.
I'm not sure what the price range those two cars are in, but I feel like it's possible to find better examples. I personally wouldn't buy one that didn't have a fairly comprehensive maintenance history, but I guess if they pass a PPI it's not a total deal breaker.
In future, it would be relatively difficult to offload a C4S as the 9th owner with 6-figure mileage and no service history. May be worth factoring that into your decision.
A PPI on either is likely. What's crazy is, both are at about the same maintenance interval. Clutch, brakes and so on are about due for the C2 and for the second time perhaps on the C4S.
Pulled carfax and window stickers on both. Both no accidents and clean history, both have crests in headrests, xeonon lights (not litronic though, is there a difference?), 3 spoke leather wheel and PSM.
C4S: Sport exhaust, full black leather, Aluminum binnacle, shifter and e-brake
C2: Black Leather (not full or partial), SS exhaust, metal door insignia, aluminum shifter and e-brake
Oh, and i fully intend on wrenching on it myself for the most part. Researching scissor lifts as we speak.
"Litronic" is/was Porsche's brand name/trademark for Xenon/Bi-Xenon headlights. If they're Xenons, but not stock (check your options sticker) then they're aftermarket - probably no levelers etc... not necessarily a bad thing but good to know regardless.
As to why a multiple previous owner story (in this case 10!) is not necessarily a bad thing....think of it, that is 9 owners pouring money into the beast! :-)
If I'd need to chose between the two (this is a C2 owner speaking!) I would go for the C4S. It looks so much better, that C2 looks very bland. Better have a well maintained 100k car then a lower mileage car. 100k in 13 years ain't much!
Why would a RWD car be more appropiate then a AWD? With the 911, the AWD is sport-oriented, it is not a SUV tractor. Both are great cars.
I would also agree that once the C4S goes over that 100K miles mark its' value will drop and it will be harder to sell. With the C4S you are only 4,000 miles away. Obviously with the C2 you have 40,000 miles to go.
Black will be next to impossible to keep clean unless you have a garage. Even a light layer of dust will be noticeable. Silver will be very easy to keep clean. Black is my second favorite Porsche color but keeping it clean (without a dedicated garage) was too much of a pain for me.
If you don't need AWD, read some of the accounts of people deleting FWD from their C4 & C4S cars. Admittedly, it's the driving purists that really want less weight & more response from the front end entering corners, but enough people make the change to give it some thought prior to purchase.
I'm biased, of course, but the C4S has a lot of advantages over the C2. Aside from the better aesthetics with the wide body, red stripe in back, and the smiling front end, it comes with the better brakes and suspension as standard. In your particular sample, full leather is also nice. As to having a full service history, it gets to be tedious after a few years so I quit doing it on mine after 5 years. I doubt you'll find many samples of good Porsche cars more than 10 years old with a full detailed history. If it was me, I would definitely get a PPI, a Carfax for whatever it's worth, and get the C4S if it passes. Maintenance will cost you, but so would a BMW
Typical dealers tend to dump service records. I sold a car to a dealer last year -- I had full service records and he had no interest in having them. I guess they feel that service records will open up more questions than they want when a buyer thumbs through them during or after the sale. Specialty dealers may not dump them, but typical dealers seem to in my limited experience.
For me, the attraction to driving the 996 is that it's a lightweight sports car -- added weight makes a big difference in driving feel (my current C2 6-speed coupe drives a lot better than my old C4 Tip coupe, part of that was the Tip, but you could feel the extra weight of both auto and 4wd). I think the 4wd drive adds somewhere around 120 to 150 lbs (don't remember the exact figure). I'm not sure how much more the wide body of the C4S adds. Also, the boot is smaller on the C4 than it is on the C2. I would take the C2 over the C4S based upon all of that. Also, for me, black is a bit more distinctive than silver, and it has lower miles. Necessary options for me are full leather, 2wd, 6-speed, coupe, and 3-spoke steering wheel.
Probably the most important thing, drive both cars. As cars get older, each one feels a bit different even if they are identical on paper. It's no substitute for PPI, but when you have no service records, the car that drives better will probably require less work down the line.
Have you checked CarFax for service records? CarFax isn't perfect, but it often has very good records, particularly when the car is dealer serviced. I have all the records for my car from new, and the CarFax shows a good number of service entries. It's not complete, but surprisingly good. How good it will be depends on where the prior owners had it serviced (because some report to CarFax and some don't).
08-20-2017, 06:45 PM
WTB, WTB: Your input very much welcomed...
