Cost to replace water pump + thermostat
10-06-2021, 06:12 AM
#46
Three Wheelin'
Rates in the Houston area.
Over here anywhere from $125 to $200 per hour. Some shops will quote discounted rate. Smaller operators cash deals and a bunch of times allow you to bring your own parts.
10-06-2021, 09:17 AM
#47
Three Wheelin'
Where average rent for a shop runs well into tens of thousands of dollars, and an average 3 bedroom house costs over $1,000,000, you expect the hourly charge to be $150 or more.
I was standing in line of the In-Out burger joint, and the help wanted sign says "starting wage $19.00" That is for a high school junior with zero experience flipping burger. For an automotive technician, with 10 years of experience working on Porsches, owning his own tools, you would expect him / her to make 3 or 4 times that. And then double that amount to have some profit after overheads. That will bring it to $150 easy. At the Palo Alto Porsche dealer, the hourly charge is $245.
I was standing in line of the In-Out burger joint, and the help wanted sign says "starting wage $19.00" That is for a high school junior with zero experience flipping burger. For an automotive technician, with 10 years of experience working on Porsches, owning his own tools, you would expect him / her to make 3 or 4 times that. And then double that amount to have some profit after overheads. That will bring it to $150 easy. At the Palo Alto Porsche dealer, the hourly charge is $245.
So either Porsche dealership service departments are the most inefficiently run businesses in the world, or they are blatant rip-offs. I lean strongly toward the latter but either way one would be well advised to take their business elsewhere.
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10-06-2021, 09:59 AM
#48
Three Wheelin'
Porsche dealership outrageous
Just for laughs, if you extrapolate that $245/hour out to a yearly salary, it comes out to $470k/year. So what does a Bay area Porsche mechanic make per year, maybe $100k on average? Not the best mechanic but the average salary across the shop. He probably does not even make $100k but let's assume he does. That means the burdened rate is at least 4.7x the actual salary which is insanely high. I work in the defense industry and even with our $500 hammers we'd be embarrassed to claim that kind of overhead. Pile on top of that the wildly inflated part costs.
So either Porsche dealership service departments are the most inefficiently run businesses in the world, or they are blatant rip-offs. I lean strongly toward the latter but either way one would be well advised to take their business elsewhere.
So either Porsche dealership service departments are the most inefficiently run businesses in the world, or they are blatant rip-offs. I lean strongly toward the latter but either way one would be well advised to take their business elsewhere.
service. $687 plus tax, so like $725.
it included oil and filter change, ac filter and wiper blades. That was using Mobil one, if I wanted the classic oil (bullsht) another $50. I got a deal at advance auto , 5 qts Mobil one 0w40 , one oil filter, one cabin air filter, $39.99, i
got the other 5 qts and another oil filter for $34.99. My wipers are fine. Same bs at a bunch of othet
shops that work on p cars.
10-06-2021, 10:07 AM
#49
Three Wheelin'
Do you guys also have $100 toilet seats
Just for laughs, if you extrapolate that $245/hour out to a yearly salary, it comes out to $470k/year. So what does a Bay area Porsche mechanic make per year, maybe $100k on average? Not the best mechanic but the average salary across the shop. He probably does not even make $100k but let's assume he does. That means the burdened rate is at least 4.7x the actual salary which is insanely high. I work in the defense industry and even with our $500 hammers we'd be embarrassed to claim that kind of overhead. Pile on top of that the wildly inflated part costs.
So either Porsche dealership service departments are the most inefficiently run businesses in the world, or they are blatant rip-offs. I lean strongly toward the latter but either way one would be well advised to take their business elsewhere.
So either Porsche dealership service departments are the most inefficiently run businesses in the world, or they are blatant rip-offs. I lean strongly toward the latter but either way one would be well advised to take their business elsewhere.
10-06-2021, 04:56 PM
#50
Three Wheelin'
When I visited my daughter who is away for college, her Audi A3 needed an oil change so I took it to Jiffy Lube and gladly paid them $100 for an oil change with filter. The grease monkey under the car needs to get paid a fair wage.
No shops, pro or dealer or anyone else, can exist long term if all customers come in and only buy the loss leaders. Therefore, you should not expect that all shops should charge the same prices for the loss leader you got some place else.
10-06-2021, 05:15 PM
#51
Rennlist Member
That $39.99 price for an oil change with oil filter and cabin air filter is called a "loss leader." It is meant to lure you in for other things because it makes no money for the shop, or even a loss. Secondly, if you only got 5 qrts during an oil change, don't go back. Your car needs 7.5 quarts.
When I visited my daughter who is away for college, her Audi A3 needed an oil change so I took it to Jiffy Lube and gladly paid them $100 for an oil change with filter. The grease monkey under the car needs to get paid a fair wage.
No shops, pro or dealer or anyone else, can exist long term if all customers come in and only buy the loss leaders. Therefore, you should not expect that all shops should charge the same prices for the loss leader you got some place else.
When I visited my daughter who is away for college, her Audi A3 needed an oil change so I took it to Jiffy Lube and gladly paid them $100 for an oil change with filter. The grease monkey under the car needs to get paid a fair wage.
No shops, pro or dealer or anyone else, can exist long term if all customers come in and only buy the loss leaders. Therefore, you should not expect that all shops should charge the same prices for the loss leader you got some place else.
10-06-2021, 05:20 PM
#52
Three Wheelin'
Just for laughs, if you extrapolate that $245/hour out to a yearly salary, it comes out to $470k/year. So what does a Bay area Porsche mechanic make per year, maybe $100k on average? Not the best mechanic but the average salary across the shop. He probably does not even make $100k but let's assume he does. That means the burdened rate is at least 4.7x the actual salary which is insanely high. I work in the defense industry and even with our $500 hammers we'd be embarrassed to claim that kind of overhead. Pile on top of that the wildly inflated part costs.
So either Porsche dealership service departments are the most inefficiently run businesses in the world, or they are blatant rip-offs. I lean strongly toward the latter but either way one would be well advised to take their business elsewhere.
So either Porsche dealership service departments are the most inefficiently run businesses in the world, or they are blatant rip-offs. I lean strongly toward the latter but either way one would be well advised to take their business elsewhere.
$100 to the mechanic
$30 for his medical benefits, sick leave, vacation, holiday pays, 401K matching, and profit sharing
$10 per hour for amortizing the cost of the lift, special equipment, that the dealer has to invest in
$5 per hour for the annual training that Porsche provides for each new model
$7.50 hourly rent for the 100 square feet of space that the mechanic is using up in the shop
$25 for the service advisor who took in the job, plus his benefits
$5 for the secretary who answers the phone
$5 for the janitor who cleans up at night
$5 a wild guess for liability insurance by the dealer
$10 a wild guess for the bathroom, supplies, coffee, tissues, water fountains, morning donuts,
So we are up to $202.50 per hour as costs for the $245 revenue. That is about 18% Gross Margin.
Any business needs marketing costs. Ads, promotions, socialization programs, social networking, etc... Normally that comes up to 10% of revenues. That bring net profit to $20 per hour. Take 1/3 of that out for income taxes, and we are down to about $13 per hour profit.
I am not trying to justify dealer prices, but they get expensive for a reason. You don't have to take your car there. But don't always assume that it is a rip off.
I will refrain from making any comments on $20,000 toilet seats and $100 screws on a $2B airplane.
Last edited by yelcab; 10-06-2021 at 05:24 PM.
10-06-2021, 05:54 PM
#53
Three Wheelin'
Yes sir I retired from valvoline
That $39.99 price for an oil change with oil filter and cabin air filter is called a "loss leader." It is meant to lure you in for other things because it makes no money for the shop, or even a loss. Secondly, if you only got 5 qrts during an oil change, don't go back. Your car needs 7.5 quarts.
When I visited my daughter who is away for college, her Audi A3 needed an oil change so I took it to Jiffy Lube and gladly paid them $100 for an oil change with filter. The grease monkey under the car needs to get paid a fair wage.
No shops, pro or dealer or anyone else, can exist long term if all customers come in and only buy the loss leaders. Therefore, you should not expect that all shops should charge the same prices for the loss leader you got some place else.
When I visited my daughter who is away for college, her Audi A3 needed an oil change so I took it to Jiffy Lube and gladly paid them $100 for an oil change with filter. The grease monkey under the car needs to get paid a fair wage.
No shops, pro or dealer or anyone else, can exist long term if all customers come in and only buy the loss leaders. Therefore, you should not expect that all shops should charge the same prices for the loss leader you got some place else.
10-07-2021, 12:01 AM
#54
Three Wheelin'
OK, let's see what goes into that $245 per hour charge:
$100 to the mechanic
$30 for his medical benefits, sick leave, vacation, holiday pays, 401K matching, and profit sharing
$10 per hour for amortizing the cost of the lift, special equipment, that the dealer has to invest in
$5 per hour for the annual training that Porsche provides for each new model
$7.50 hourly rent for the 100 square feet of space that the mechanic is using up in the shop
$25 for the service advisor who took in the job, plus his benefits
$5 for the secretary who answers the phone
$5 for the janitor who cleans up at night
$5 a wild guess for liability insurance by the dealer
$10 a wild guess for the bathroom, supplies, coffee, tissues, water fountains, morning donuts,
So we are up to $202.50 per hour as costs for the $245 revenue. That is about 18% Gross Margin.
Any business needs marketing costs. Ads, promotions, socialization programs, social networking, etc... Normally that comes up to 10% of revenues. That bring net profit to $20 per hour. Take 1/3 of that out for income taxes, and we are down to about $13 per hour profit.
I am not trying to justify dealer prices, but they get expensive for a reason. You don't have to take your car there. But don't always assume that it is a rip off.
I will refrain from making any comments on $20,000 toilet seats and $100 screws on a $2B airplane.
$100 to the mechanic
$30 for his medical benefits, sick leave, vacation, holiday pays, 401K matching, and profit sharing
$10 per hour for amortizing the cost of the lift, special equipment, that the dealer has to invest in
$5 per hour for the annual training that Porsche provides for each new model
$7.50 hourly rent for the 100 square feet of space that the mechanic is using up in the shop
$25 for the service advisor who took in the job, plus his benefits
$5 for the secretary who answers the phone
$5 for the janitor who cleans up at night
$5 a wild guess for liability insurance by the dealer
$10 a wild guess for the bathroom, supplies, coffee, tissues, water fountains, morning donuts,
So we are up to $202.50 per hour as costs for the $245 revenue. That is about 18% Gross Margin.
Any business needs marketing costs. Ads, promotions, socialization programs, social networking, etc... Normally that comes up to 10% of revenues. That bring net profit to $20 per hour. Take 1/3 of that out for income taxes, and we are down to about $13 per hour profit.
I am not trying to justify dealer prices, but they get expensive for a reason. You don't have to take your car there. But don't always assume that it is a rip off.
I will refrain from making any comments on $20,000 toilet seats and $100 screws on a $2B airplane.
First off, the mechanic doesn't make $100/hour so your entire premise is off. I don't care where the dealership is located, $100/hour is a salary of $192k/year without any overtime. And that's the average salary, not the highest paid guy. Any shop paying average mechanics a base salary of $192k/year deserve to go out of business. But they don't pay them anywhere near that so it's a moot point and your entire comparison is invalid. People think just because they are privledged enough to make a fortune as lawyers or real estate agents (or whatever) then everyone else does to. They don't. Most folks that punch a clock don't get paid that well unless they start their own business.
Regarding all the little odds and ends, good shops control those costs through decent management. That's why businesses have a burdened rate that is a multiplier of of the base pay. Well-run organizations keep that multiplier close to 2x, but under 3x is ok. Assuming an average mechanic salary of $100k/year (which is still probably too high but better than the absurd $192k above) that's a multiplier of 4.7x which is ridiculously high. Decent indy's don't charge anywhere near that.
(Edit: see next comment for mechanic salary references in San Jose.)
As to the ad hominem it speaks for itself. I put out a reasoned argument that attempts to explain why $245/hour is ridiculous and you respond with $20,000 toilet seats. How is that relevant? I'm not trying to defend the cost of an F-35 fighter.
If people want to take their cars to the Porsche dealership for "peace of mind" or the excellent Cafe Latte bar than that's their right, it's not coming out of my pocket. But $245/hour labor rates are indefensible.
Last edited by PV997; 10-07-2021 at 01:10 AM.
10-07-2021, 12:20 AM
#55
Three Wheelin'
Average mechanic salary in San Jose, Ca = $59,219/ year. 90th percentile is $66,186 ($35/hour).
https://www.salary.com/tools/salary-...-i/san-jose-ca
Edit: Adding in a technical certification ups it to $64,624/year average and 90th percentile of $79,822 ($42/hour).
https://www.salary.com/tools/salary-...DLEV2&pfm=PR03
https://www.salary.com/tools/salary-...-i/san-jose-ca
Edit: Adding in a technical certification ups it to $64,624/year average and 90th percentile of $79,822 ($42/hour).
https://www.salary.com/tools/salary-...DLEV2&pfm=PR03
Last edited by PV997; 10-07-2021 at 01:08 AM.
10-07-2021, 07:25 PM
#56
Three Wheelin'
Someone has to pay for it.
Like I said, they are either incredibly inefficient or a blatant rip-off. I think it's the latter, you make a strong case for it being the former.
First off, the mechanic doesn't make $100/hour so your entire premise is off. I don't care where the dealership is located, $100/hour is a salary of $192k/year without any overtime. And that's the average salary, not the highest paid guy. Any shop paying average mechanics a base salary of $192k/year deserve to go out of business. But they don't pay them anywhere near that so it's a moot point and your entire comparison is invalid. People think just because they are privledged enough to make a fortune as lawyers or real estate agents (or whatever) then everyone else does to. They don't. Most folks that punch a clock don't get paid that well unless they start their own business.
Regarding all the little odds and ends, good shops control those costs through decent management. That's why businesses have a burdened rate that is a multiplier of of the base pay. Well-run organizations keep that multiplier close to 2x, but under 3x is ok. Assuming an average mechanic salary of $100k/year (which is still probably too high but better than the absurd $192k above) that's a multiplier of 4.7x which is ridiculously high. Decent indy's don't charge anywhere near that.
(Edit: see next comment for mechanic salary references in San Jose.)
As to the ad hominem it speaks for itself. I put out a reasoned argument that attempts to explain why $245/hour is ridiculous and you respond with $20,000 toilet seats. How is that relevant? I'm not trying to defend the cost of an F-35 fighter.
If people want to take their cars to the Porsche dealership for "peace of mind" or the excellent Cafe Latte bar than that's their right, it's not coming out of my pocket. But $245/hour labor rates are indefensible.
First off, the mechanic doesn't make $100/hour so your entire premise is off. I don't care where the dealership is located, $100/hour is a salary of $192k/year without any overtime. And that's the average salary, not the highest paid guy. Any shop paying average mechanics a base salary of $192k/year deserve to go out of business. But they don't pay them anywhere near that so it's a moot point and your entire comparison is invalid. People think just because they are privledged enough to make a fortune as lawyers or real estate agents (or whatever) then everyone else does to. They don't. Most folks that punch a clock don't get paid that well unless they start their own business.
Regarding all the little odds and ends, good shops control those costs through decent management. That's why businesses have a burdened rate that is a multiplier of of the base pay. Well-run organizations keep that multiplier close to 2x, but under 3x is ok. Assuming an average mechanic salary of $100k/year (which is still probably too high but better than the absurd $192k above) that's a multiplier of 4.7x which is ridiculously high. Decent indy's don't charge anywhere near that.
(Edit: see next comment for mechanic salary references in San Jose.)
As to the ad hominem it speaks for itself. I put out a reasoned argument that attempts to explain why $245/hour is ridiculous and you respond with $20,000 toilet seats. How is that relevant? I'm not trying to defend the cost of an F-35 fighter.
If people want to take their cars to the Porsche dealership for "peace of mind" or the excellent Cafe Latte bar than that's their right, it's not coming out of my pocket. But $245/hour labor rates are indefensible.
me shop prices. Anyway last time I was there he put the parts in this niece bag. The bag almost looks like something you would get at Loui Vitton. Yes while I was waiting I drank free Coke Zero and took another for the road, most people that where waiting in there were drinking the $5 lattes (comparing that to Starbucks). This experience is just at about the same at the MB dealership, at MB they have donuts, brownies, cinnamon rolls, cookies. This dealership actually washes our car for free, they also vacuum it and wipe down the interior. Around this area that’s probably a $20 car wash that we can get for free whenever we want. Yes this dealership rates are at $175/hour. I’ll need a service A the Mercedes before the end of the year, but I ain’t going to pay almost $500 for it.
Loui Vitton, Rolex type bag provided at the dealership.