Doesn't get much worse than this
10-07-2009, 03:04 AM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
Doesn't get much worse than this
I have not been here on RL for a while, well I have but just not yacking. The reason is I was at a Porsche club day here at Taupo early September (center of the North Island and cold!) and put the TT into a wall. It was my fault, and it was also my last lap. I just gave it too much and it was all over in a second. In fact it was that fast my life didn't even get the chance to flash before me, but I do remember thinking that this is really going to hurt...and it did. Broke a rib but thats about it. My pride is shattered however.
the air bags never went off but I have fcukde the rear gaurd, front gaurd, front bumper, rear wheel, various suspension parts, front RH oil cooler, tyre well etc. No damage to doors or anything.
The problem for me is....
1. Insurance are bauking as they say it was a timed event, and it wasn't, plus they are trying allsorts to get out but thats to be expected. I still have a couple of things up my sleve but it's not looking great.
2. The prices of parts are like parts for a NASA shuttle here in NZ. They are over the top. Ricicioulous, bonnet $5000NZ, front gaurd $4000, rear wheel $4000.00 and so on. Up shot is the cost to repair has been quoted at $73K to $95K.
Who's a RELIABLE, trust worthy, fair priced place to call for parts?
the air bags never went off but I have fcukde the rear gaurd, front gaurd, front bumper, rear wheel, various suspension parts, front RH oil cooler, tyre well etc. No damage to doors or anything.
The problem for me is....
1. Insurance are bauking as they say it was a timed event, and it wasn't, plus they are trying allsorts to get out but thats to be expected. I still have a couple of things up my sleve but it's not looking great.
2. The prices of parts are like parts for a NASA shuttle here in NZ. They are over the top. Ricicioulous, bonnet $5000NZ, front gaurd $4000, rear wheel $4000.00 and so on. Up shot is the cost to repair has been quoted at $73K to $95K.
Who's a RELIABLE, trust worthy, fair priced place to call for parts?
Last edited by 993MAN; 02-21-2010 at 07:13 PM.
10-07-2009, 03:17 AM
#2
Addict
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10-07-2009, 04:12 AM
#3
Well, that sucks. And there but for the grace of a half inch of racing surface or the luck of the moment, I've been very close to the same predicament in mine more than once.
I hope you can get the insurance company to come to the party, even if they only cover 75% of the loss and you agree that you will find other means of insurance for the track next time.
I'm in the US, but I know the market in Australia and that car would end up repaired because it's so expensive there. In California, it's very close if not certainly a matter of parting it out. The work to repair the front pan and rear quarter would be significant, not even starting to think about a proper paint job.
The price you mention (call it NZD$90K or roughly USD$65K) is probably no far off the mark (and the private sale market value of the car is right around the US$60K mark, so it's certainly a write-off here even if someone else comes along and salvages it, which I think is perfectly do-able.
My concern would be to check the engine and drive-train. The "push" into that quarter with the muffler kinked flat suggested it took a lot of the deceleration energy and it all had to get spent by bending metal. I'd be suspecting that the headers sent all that force directly to the heads on both sides (one directly and one through the "fold arms" rear cat pipes. The skew-if appearance of hot air plumbing suggests things could be pretty grim.
As for the transmission, I'd be concerned that the shunt into the front pan wasn't contained to the crumple deformation, but possibly ended up forcing against the front differential, which would communicate all the force through the torque tube into the nose of the transaxle. Lots of rather expensive seals and bearings and alignment issues that will not take kindly to being subjected to leverage or twisting forces.
The suspension seems to have survived, but you usually have to assume ball joints and control arms are no longer to be trusted, especially if the wheels show any signs (and the wheels have to be tested.) Assuming the chassis sits down nicely on a frame aligner, I'd like to think it's a very strong car and the damage, while ugly, has not reached into the structure.
All that said, I think the estimate of NZD$80-100K is not unrealistic and things of course could end up in the worst case scenario of finding various points of damage at the mating surfaces of the drivetrain components or something damaged in the heads or even the engine having suffered some problems if it was forced to turn backwards briefly or just forced to stop abruptly, etc. Once you start adding up little items on three corners, plus replacing any recoil seatbelt (they're meant to be replaced after an impact where they could have incurred load) plus your medical needs, it's all becoming expensive.
Does NZ insurance have coverage for "diminished value" or a loaner during repair work -- this is a month of work plus waiting for parts, so the insurer is looking at a pretty steep total cost assuming once the repair is "in there" that they don't find any really big nasty surprises.
Well, good luck with the ribs. I've had a couple broken when I was young and I still remember the recovery.
I hope you can get the insurance company to come to the party, even if they only cover 75% of the loss and you agree that you will find other means of insurance for the track next time.
I'm in the US, but I know the market in Australia and that car would end up repaired because it's so expensive there. In California, it's very close if not certainly a matter of parting it out. The work to repair the front pan and rear quarter would be significant, not even starting to think about a proper paint job.
The price you mention (call it NZD$90K or roughly USD$65K) is probably no far off the mark (and the private sale market value of the car is right around the US$60K mark, so it's certainly a write-off here even if someone else comes along and salvages it, which I think is perfectly do-able.
My concern would be to check the engine and drive-train. The "push" into that quarter with the muffler kinked flat suggested it took a lot of the deceleration energy and it all had to get spent by bending metal. I'd be suspecting that the headers sent all that force directly to the heads on both sides (one directly and one through the "fold arms" rear cat pipes. The skew-if appearance of hot air plumbing suggests things could be pretty grim.
As for the transmission, I'd be concerned that the shunt into the front pan wasn't contained to the crumple deformation, but possibly ended up forcing against the front differential, which would communicate all the force through the torque tube into the nose of the transaxle. Lots of rather expensive seals and bearings and alignment issues that will not take kindly to being subjected to leverage or twisting forces.
The suspension seems to have survived, but you usually have to assume ball joints and control arms are no longer to be trusted, especially if the wheels show any signs (and the wheels have to be tested.) Assuming the chassis sits down nicely on a frame aligner, I'd like to think it's a very strong car and the damage, while ugly, has not reached into the structure.
All that said, I think the estimate of NZD$80-100K is not unrealistic and things of course could end up in the worst case scenario of finding various points of damage at the mating surfaces of the drivetrain components or something damaged in the heads or even the engine having suffered some problems if it was forced to turn backwards briefly or just forced to stop abruptly, etc. Once you start adding up little items on three corners, plus replacing any recoil seatbelt (they're meant to be replaced after an impact where they could have incurred load) plus your medical needs, it's all becoming expensive.
Does NZ insurance have coverage for "diminished value" or a loaner during repair work -- this is a month of work plus waiting for parts, so the insurer is looking at a pretty steep total cost assuming once the repair is "in there" that they don't find any really big nasty surprises.
Well, good luck with the ribs. I've had a couple broken when I was young and I still remember the recovery.
10-07-2009, 07:31 AM
#4
Drifting
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G,
I feel for you man. It doesn't get much worse than this I agree.. BUT. I'm also very glad to hear that you are okay. That you did not suffer any fatal injury. It's tragic about the car, for sure but afterall, it's just a car.. Maybe not what you want to hear but I'm glad you're okay buddy!
CGT presents some really good advice (as always). Try to think this over a couple of times (I know you already have). Maybe it's better to try to get the 75% MV directly from the insurance company, then buy another 993TT and never look back. I'm just hoping that if you decide to repair yours, it might not be the same car as before the crash. And as CGT points out, there might be more costs then you know now. It's hard to anticipate. The "diminished value" aspect is certainly a valid point. Try and bring this up with your insurance agent and see what they have to say about it. Good luck regardless!!!
I feel for you man. It doesn't get much worse than this I agree.. BUT. I'm also very glad to hear that you are okay. That you did not suffer any fatal injury. It's tragic about the car, for sure but afterall, it's just a car.. Maybe not what you want to hear but I'm glad you're okay buddy!
CGT presents some really good advice (as always). Try to think this over a couple of times (I know you already have). Maybe it's better to try to get the 75% MV directly from the insurance company, then buy another 993TT and never look back. I'm just hoping that if you decide to repair yours, it might not be the same car as before the crash. And as CGT points out, there might be more costs then you know now. It's hard to anticipate. The "diminished value" aspect is certainly a valid point. Try and bring this up with your insurance agent and see what they have to say about it. Good luck regardless!!!
10-07-2009, 07:52 AM
#5
Rennlist Member
Good luck with the Insurance as well. I was told by my agent, agents boss and my agents bosses boss that I was covered because PCA DEs were untimed. The day of my last event though, I called directly to the insurance company and they referred me back to my agent, I demanded to talk with a supervisor who took my info and went online to look at the course, event info and PCA website.
She determined that since the event was being held at a location capable of timing the event that it was not covered. I hope you can work this out and I am very sorry that this happened to you.
She determined that since the event was being held at a location capable of timing the event that it was not covered. I hope you can work this out and I am very sorry that this happened to you.
10-07-2009, 09:06 AM
#6
You need to get the detailed copy of your insurance agreement that lists exactly what is and what is not covered. If there are no exceptions listed that pertain to your usage they either pay or you get an attorney. Sunset Imports has the best prices on OEM parts here in the States.
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10-07-2009, 01:55 PM
#8
Rennlist Member
Glad to hear you're ok and I hope you have some luck with your insurance company. It certainly serves as a reminder to all of us how unforgiving the track can be.
It's sad to see another 993 bite the dust. Based ont he extent of the damage seen in your pictures, this car would clearly be a write-off in my market.
Keep us posted.
It's sad to see another 993 bite the dust. Based ont he extent of the damage seen in your pictures, this car would clearly be a write-off in my market.
Keep us posted.
10-07-2009, 02:45 PM
#10
Three Wheelin'
Your ONLY concern should be trying to get your insurance company to pay for the fix or pay you for the total loss. If this was an untimed event and there is no specific wording in the policy which excludes that then you should be ok but still need to get a lawyer involved
10-07-2009, 03:52 PM
#12
First, glad it was only a broken rib. (I know people who have broken a rib from sneezing) but anyway, I'd go throught the motions with insurance and get a lawyer if needed. If for whatever reason the case doesnt go your way you'll do better parting her out. I know its a pain getting those cars back to NZ, but I have a feeling you'll have less stress selling what you can an ebay and elsewhere from your injured arena red car, and sourcing a new ride. Nice examples are going for rock bottom prices over here in the U.S.
Gert @ Carnewal has nice euro bumper covers and other parts tho...
Gert @ Carnewal has nice euro bumper covers and other parts tho...
10-07-2009, 04:23 PM
#13
Rennlist Member
Ouch. Sorry...
As already said, Sunset Porsche in Oregon is going to be the best pricing on "Porsche only" parts.
There are cheaper sources for OEM parts on stuff made for Porsche by Bosch, ZF, etc.
As already said, Sunset Porsche in Oregon is going to be the best pricing on "Porsche only" parts.
There are cheaper sources for OEM parts on stuff made for Porsche by Bosch, ZF, etc.
10-07-2009, 04:25 PM
#14
Rennlist Member
That sucks but glad you're okay. I know of turbo that had similar damage and the bill came to ~CAD$70k so I think it's within ballpark. The car had front-end damage and required new front-end (tub, bonnet, bumper guard, control arms etc. but repaired the fenders with surface damage), full respray, airbags went off and kneebar was dented but no rear damage though I'm sure the interior bits make up for the rear damage as the steering wheel alone was CAD$5k IIRC. I hope things work out well for you with the insurance co.
10-07-2009, 07:07 PM
#15
Race Car
Never a good thing to see, Thankfully you are ok (bar the ribs). There is a lot of good advise being offered here. I dont have anything to add regarding dealing with the insurance coy, however:
If it gets to the point the car will be repaired and the repairer has been chosen there is then an opportunity to work with them to reduce cost (in exchange for additional services etc). Anytime I have had to have a car repaired I worked with the repairer. last time I managed to get a euro bumper instead of my original one and some brake ducts. I purchased the items myself, and sold them to the repairer (at my cost).
He was happy to do this and I got a repaired car with an update....
Good luck....
If it gets to the point the car will be repaired and the repairer has been chosen there is then an opportunity to work with them to reduce cost (in exchange for additional services etc). Anytime I have had to have a car repaired I worked with the repairer. last time I managed to get a euro bumper instead of my original one and some brake ducts. I purchased the items myself, and sold them to the repairer (at my cost).
He was happy to do this and I got a repaired car with an update....
Good luck....