Acropora

http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/9...-complete.html

Spartan

ha Tony has been doing that for a LONG time with great success both on porsche and audi platforms. M

My car is getting the full treatment this winter but will not be tuned for it. I'm not as interested in the extra power as I am in the keeping the IAT's in check on the track. That and you can drive around with it off without having to worry about it.

Don't know why we haven't seen any of this on the 993 platform yet

Jean

Thanks Brad, but I really don't know what is the big deal, this has been done for years on Porsche cars in Europe.

I am installing 100% methanol injection tomorrow on my car (very thin nozzle), I am expecting some improvement in intake temps but I have zero interest in incremental HP. I have all the sensors and datalogger in place to datalog IAT, AFRs etc..

Spartan, yes there are 993s running water+methanol injection around.

Spartan

You will like what you see

Acropora

Since it's been done for years why talk about intercoolers forever before finally getting around to installing your injector?
I didn't know dropping your intake temps 15C via this method was an option on 993tt.
I must have spent too much attention on posters lecturing me how one needs a secan IC to lower intake temps.
Hopefully someone else will see this as an option now and can benefit from it next season as I plan to.

Jean

Brad,

Yes it has been done for years, I have been around a 996GT2 back in 2004 in Saudi Arabia, it had water injection fitted by 9FF already, I know of another one in Bahrain, and right now, there are at least 2 996TT and GT2 that have water injection installed and will be racing against me starting next week, one from Cartronic and the other I don't know from where. These all run on water injection. And these are only the ones I have personally seen, there must be hundreds!

Water injection and intercooler spray is close to useless, except in very harsh heat conditions like here. Methanol injection is a different story.

Why are we talking about expensive intercoolers? Well there is more to performance driving than a 60-130 or a quartermile run!

A street car does not need it and a race car (993GT2) has many reasons not to, the first being that you run the risk of detonating your engine if something goes wrong, the second being that many series do not allow it, third being that it needs a retune, and unless your own tuner can remap Motronic himself, you cannot simply buy a methanol kit and install it and go, fourth because in a 4/6/12/24 hour enduro, how much methanol are you willing to carry on board and monitor while racing?

You are adding a risk by running such setups, and in a track racing environment this does not work. The reason I am installing one is because I can try it here in 20 minute sprints. I will be running a very thin nozzle as I am not looking for power.

Secan remains the best bet for efficient intercooling on our cars bar none, and I don't own one, but will shortly.

pstoppani

Reviving since the topic came up again recently...

So, for those that have done, could you share your experience, setup, tune, anything?

My feeling is that it can be used just for insurance (extra intake cooling) or for more power.

What have you guys done?

Thanks!

LA964RS

I'm well aware of the benefits of direct injection and looked at it when I was building my car. But I was told by a very reliable source at Porsche Motorsports that it was not good for the cylinders...don't know why that would be the case, but he said it was only w/the 993TT...it was good w/everything else.

Go figure....I'd love to find out that it works great w/no side effects on the cylinder linings.

MarkD

interesting!

I wonder if it has anything to do with the ceramic in the exhaust ports on the 993 turbos?
Otherwise I can't think of any impact to the pistons or cylinder linings...

Spartan

Exactly makes no sense. Assume a proper 50/50 mix. Meth is fuel, like gas, it burns. Any water is vaporized, only effect with the water is lower air temp. Meth is simply raises the octane of the fuel. Its also great at cleaning the intake & exhaust ports come to find

Anything negative will show up on an oil analysis

I still lol so much misinformation around here. Don't anyone use this on your 993tt, your cylinders will rust and your engine will explode

LA964RS

Spartan...can't wait for you to get it going so we can all benefit from your R&D. All I can tell you is here in California w/the joke they call "gas", the injection would be a welcome addition...cheaper and more convenient than the $8/gal gas I mix just so I can run 1.2 bar....

BTW, if your cylinders do rust and your engine explodes, do let us know....

Spartan

Well you can always run the $8 gas AND meth so you can really have fun

Now there are downsides. If you are using it for more power then you need a custom tune for it, no off the shelf stuff here. You can run either full meth or a 50/50 mix. Either way you have to buy the meth, store it in your car, and fill it up from time to time. How much will you use? Depends on a equation which includes injector size, fuel pressure, boost, and compressor map which in the end give you a nozzle size that flows x-amount as either this injector duty cycle, load, or boost pressure. If its street driving you can burn through a couple fill ups of gas before you need to top off the meth tank. If its on the track its every 20-30 min session (assuming at least a 3 gallon tank). Also if you are tuned for it, and it runs out you could not go wot as you would dangerously lean out. Numerous failsafes you can put into effect there but the best is actually watching the gauge

If you just use this as a way to keep IAT's low then your safe if it runs out, car just thinks the IAT's went through the roof and pulls timing accordingly. You'd also run a little rich at WOT but thats not the end of the world. Best way to keep this from happening is doing the math on nozzle size and length of time on the track so you know you won't run out. All enthusiasts that start playing with this type of stuff (or anything beyond an off the shelf tune imo) need an wideband in the car anyway to always make sure things are safe.

Then there is fact you now have another tank in the trunk of your car and have to install the system (correctly). This all adds more complication but being enthusiasts thats all part the fun sometimes!

So there is a little pain to go with the gain so to speak. Other than spending a ton of money on a magic intercooler this is the way to go imo. Delta IAT's are sexy when you graph up a 1-6 gear run. I'm also interested to see how much lower it keeps cylinder head temps.

My car will have it installed in March and is heading down to Todd for a custom tune soon after. Since I have stock rods I'm not tuning for power with the meth, will just enjoy the lower IAT's

Bradford

What gas are you using? 100 octane is under $7.00 per gallon.

LA964RS

Bradford...where you buying?...I"m getting mine in Van Nuys....on Sherman Way...Alliance station its Trick 100....I think last fill it was hovering around $8...

Bradford

I believe it is a 76 station at the 101 and Chesebro in Agoura Hills. Last time I bought it in December it was just under $7.00.