SA Mike

Very sweet car Steve

Woodster

Ah, Yes!

Worth every Penny.

MK

Ima2nr

the "other" answer is with RUF you have a pedigree. there are several great "non-pedigree" tuners/ cars that you canget for less.

ask yourself this question. do you want performance, lowest price, reliability, or pedigree?

I own a RUF, and it is awsome, but I find myself "wanting more" and I keep talking to "the other two 993 tuners in the USA". I think the RUF package is strong, well proven, and reliable. but face it, it is a "bolt on package" designed more than 10 yrs ago! (pedegree dogs cost twice as much as pure breed dog-the same is true for pedigree cars... just try to buy a 30 yr old Carol Shelby built car. WOW! that just makes me think why RUF cost more, they have a "relationship" with the Porsche company, this makes us "feel" like the RUF product has Porsche factory craftmanship, performance, support, etc and of course ultimately the Porsche "nod of approval")

the "top two"tuners in the USA -who by the way have two diffrent approaches to tuning; are both "actively" fine tuning their modifications or performances packages constantly looking ever still to squeeze even more reliable HP out of these incredible machines. and they are doing it too. :-)

comparison:
German tuner "RUF" - world renouned for being an innovator with these cars. but let's face it, they have moved on to newer platforms. (FWIW I currently own one and love it.)

USA tuner "protomotive" - has an awsome reputation for big numbers and cars that don't break. he's also know as an innovator with all things Porsche. I swear this guy knows what's wrong with your 993 before it's wrong. he's like a psychic! I'm sure he's seen every possible "bad modification" that has ever been done to these things. (including my car). (disclaimer: I've owned a protomotive monster 993 C4S twin turbo conversion in the past- if you want FAST go find one of these on the used market! you cannot get more bang for your buck... and I've had recent "upgrades" done to my RUF with this tuner recently netting me more than +100 ft lbs of tq above what the RUF turbo R upgrade gave me).

USA tuner "ultimatemotorwerks" - has a cult like following for his "outside the box" cutting edge turbo work. evry time I talk to him I wonder why he does'nt work for NASA or something. I hear he is actually "actively" designing, improving, tweaking, and manufacturing IMPROVED turbo's for our cars and the 996 platform. think about that!? who in there right mind would "waste" that kind of engineering talent on such a "limited" market? I only think someone who is passionate for improvement to something that is arguable already superior. relentlessly wanting to enlighten a dark room with his innovative invention(think thomas edison). (disclaimer: I have never owned any of his turbo's (called "zero clearance")- I have bought a clutch kit, plug wires, etc from him and he was super reasonable, fast, and fair. now I think I'm smart enough to know when someone knows what they are talking about. I believe this guy is constantly "mentally improving" our beloved 993 and 996 turbo's efficiency evry minute he's awake and asleep! let last statement sink in for a minute... at first I thought "this guy is nuts"- KKK (now borg warner) is a multi-mega million dollar turbo power house manufacturer... what the hell can "this guy" actually do to "better" what they have done so far? then it hit me! (ouch)... borg warner HAS done better than they did 13 YEARS AGO! they have just done it on newer vehicles! (think 997 turbo technology) WOW! now I see why "this tuner" is credible... WITHOUT the mega million dollar budget (i'm sure it cost big bucks to "experiment" with diffrent impeller, housing, vein angles, etc) he is ACTUALLY finding LOTS of improvement when the original designers have abandoned this platform long ago.

thanks for letting me ramble... In summary you cannot go wrong with any of the three... If I only had more $$$ I'd buy some of those "zero clearance" turbo's too, but right now my bank account might get mad at me for abusing it so much. :-)

now - Go buy some cool sh** from one of these three great tuners!

Ima2nr

I need to shave..

TB993tt

Ruf does not have a Porsche official "nod of approval", no tuner has although on the engine side certain German tuners have been known to develop stuff for Porsche and have relationships with close Porsche suppliers -all in the name of producing race winners -Porsche do not support any tuner modifying engines....

Your opinion about the two US tuners is high on praise and lite on substance, the point about the Ruf 490 kit is that it is proven, it will take a standard 993tt 100-200kph in ~8s and on to 204mph which it will hold all day. (OK there have been "some" head leakage problems but they are not alone)
Dial in another "100lb/ft" and you will be wallowing in heat soak way before you hit high load numbers - this may not be of concern in the US where short sprint hp and high peak chassis dyno hp numbers are de-rigeur....

Undoubtedly there are some advantages to more modern turbo units but the key to the Ruf package is the matching of components and the programming which is sooo proven.

One thing to bare in mind (Kevin at UMW is #1 advocate) is that unless ALL your components are fully operational and bang up to tolerance inculding silly items like your valve springs being in spec (MOD500 ) ANY tuning will have difficulty making real power.

A properly operational engine should be your first goal, at the recent vmax RLer Phelix in his 993tt (with either 430 or 450 Porsche engine) with freshly built engine did 184mph in 1.5 miles (which was the same speed as a 996 GT2 with an alledged 520hp !! )

UMW's kit with Gunther programming gets my vote for value and sustainable hp although the peak numbers may "look" disappointing in the US market

Felix

It was a mere factory 430 ECU with those puny K16's.

Ima2nr

I disagree... Porsche builds bodies only and "sells them to RUF" to build complete cars from, Porsche also suppies all the other "bits" that RUF needs to complete a RUF VIN # chassie. To my knoweledge Porsche does not have this relationship with any other car manufaturer in the world. Since 1983 RUF has been building sports cars with a RUF VIN number and all of those cars have been bsaed on the Porsche 911 Platform. that means Porsche and RUF have had a business relationship for nearly 25 years ... that is a pretty big "nod" in my opinion. It is true (to my knoweledge) RUF is an independant vehicle manufacturer and has never been financially supported by Porsche, but with out the "nod" I mentioned I also don't believe another RUF porsche based chassie would ever roll off that assymbly line. THIS IS WHY RUF IS (in my opinion) A "PEDIGREE" CAR.

IMPORTANT NOTE! "I'm not flamin' - I'm just explaining" ----this is NOT a "retaliation post". I'm just long winded sometimes! there are worse problems one could have in life :-)

please realize I am not an expert on all the "other" tuners out there(and did not claim to be), and I don't disagree with anything you said as it was all purly your opinion. And everything I offered up was just my personal opinion's based on my past and present experiences owning two diffrent 993's built by 2 of the three mentioned tuners. (if you are a tuner for the 993, don't be offended that I don't know who you are, and MY lack of mentioning your existence is not a condemnation to your skill or talent. you actually may be the best tuner that has ever turned a wrench... It just means I personally don't know who you are).

the original posters question was titiled "is the RUF TURBO R worth the Money?" --

if you will "re-read" my post you might derive that I actually TRIED to answer that specific question... and point the poster in the direction that they were looking for.

And I thought I actually told the original poster that if he wanted a solid, fast strong "pedigree" car them buy the RUF conversion. (BTW - this is exactly what I did... I own a RUF and most here will also agree RUF does not advertise the most impressive HP claims either).

I also told the poster (still only my opinion) that if they wanted a ***** to the walls FAST 993tt for cheap the go find a used "protomotive tuned" car for sale. (this related to the "is it worth the money?" part of his question. what does the buyer "expect" for the money? is he looking for "quick acceleration" or "explosive acceleration"?)

also realize that the "buy a used proto car" statement does not send business to protmotive, quite the opposite... protomotive gets paid to buid the car, not every time it resells, and sells again. (FWIW- I bought my 993tt protomotive conversion used for 60k 3 years ago! I have kicked my self repeatedly for selling it. after it was gone I have owned a 1997 Ferrari 355B, a 2005 Lambo Gallardo wth a Kressigg race exhaust, and the RUF TURBO R... and I still have not "replaced" the rocketship acceleration that "used protomotive car" gave me for only 60k. that was the cheapest "definetly worth the money" kind of thrill ride!

you said:
and then you finished your post with:
isn't your own comment not "high on praise and lite on substance" and not directly trying to answer the posters question?

again, my coments were only opinionated answers to the original question (and I did add the discalimer thing that my car WAS currently being worked on by Todd)

and yes... for the record I do not drive my car on the track under high boost "sustained" for 3 hours straight (and I never expect too either). I only want my car to "accelerate faster" from 60-120 MPH than the guy in the (insert any vehicle type here) next to me on the road. that is probably LESS than a 6 second contest of acceleration... heat soak is not even a worry on my list. I do live in the USA, and my car gets to 180 way too fast to sustain that kind of speed since there is no autoban here... all we have are soccer-mom minivan drivers that think it is their personal mission in life to inforce the speed limit on other motorist by getting in the fast lane (on a 16 lane super expressway) and going exactly the posted speed limit to slow others down. (not much of a "sustained speed nirvanna" here in Atlanta Ga)


and to add a final thought for the original poster's question - no matter what yuo do to make a 993tt more powerful, RUF or "other"... (TB993tt's 1st post addressed this and I agree with him strongly). you will need to be sure all your "other" componets are updated for the extra torque you plan on laying down on the pavement... think upgraded clutch, brakes to slow you back down, or any other drivetrain component that could be weak like the foremetioned "valves springs" tha it seems were an issue at some point for Phelix's 993tt. (I have never spoken with either TB9933tt or Phelix, I have only derived Phelix had that issue from the previous post).

be sure to tell us which car you actually buy, what kit you actually add, or what direction you take with your 993tt when you do make a decision... and never believe what you read on the internet unless you have researched it for yourself and have verified it to be true according to your own standards.

I still need to shave.

bv shady

I agree with IMA2NR If you want a pedigree Ruf has it. I like one offs and am going to have protomotive do a twin turbo conversion in the near future. Paul

ca993twin

Ima2nr (Kevin),

TB993TT has one of the most beautiful, most expensive, and fastest street-driven 993TTs in the world. He always argues that dyno HP means nothing, and that we all need to do 60-130mph runs with a datalogger to measure our performance. He is a believer in RS Tuning, but he is not himself a tuner. He has an interesting point of view, and debates well, if sometimes a bit vitrolically.

In my own, poor, uneducated and untested opinion, however, I agee with you, Kevin. While my own Ruf Turbo R remains totally untested, with 110k miles (24k since conversion), it performs flawlessly. My car has the entire Ruf package... suspension, brakes (as you know), and all the aero bits I could afford. The car is all I can ask for... I don't need or want any more performance in any regard. One of the Ruf Turbo Rs that regularly measures its perfromance is the one owned by Roland (RufRacer). He takes his Ruf to Nevada and has run it in the unlimited class in the Nevada Open Road races, and has been recorded at 211 mph. This year he won the 160 MPH class... and this is the average over 100 miles. The interesting part of this is that Roland regularly street drives his Turbo R. Roland is quite a guy (he's even older than I am), and still does a great job in that car.

It is certainly possible to "update" the Ruf programming and turbos to more modern specs and achieve even more performance... protomotive and UMW are great examples of this. For me... I'm so happy with my Ruf package that I wouldn't change a thing.

Please, go shave now.

Bill P.

Steve (OFE),

Your car is beautiful and I'd love to replicate what you have. If you don't mind my asking, do you have an idea what it would cost in today's dollars?

Thanks,

Bill

ca993twin

Bill,

Only a crazy idiot would add up all the upgrade costs... and I'm guilty as charged. I went through the Ruf catalog, and added up the conversion and other Ruf parts at full list price. I then added the turbo S tail and the paint work, plus a few other odds and ends... again at full list price. The total bill adds up to almost $90k! Assuming you started with a high mileage but clean 993TT like mine at about $45 or $50k, this car would cost almost $130k to replicate.

I'll be the first to add that I have NO WHERE NEAR that kind of money in the Rufus. I bought him already converted, and managed to find some of the other add-ons on eBay and from friends. I sold and traded some of the stock take-off parts to keep my actual investment to a minimum. My actual investment, BTW, is a number that I actually refuse to calculate... I'm may be crazy, but I'm not nuts.

911/Q45

When are you going to put some bigger brakes on the back Steve? It looks funny.

ca993twin

Don,

They are the original Ruf brakes, as used 10 years ago. You wouldn't want me to put some non-Ruf parts on my car, would you? And stop giving me such a hard time!

IamSMC

You sure that's not love?

Bill P.

Thanks, Steve.

You have made it a project which in itself is fun. I look forward to when I start down that path...

Regards,

Bill