Acropora

I have 700 hp.

Jean

Brad you have nothing until you show us datalogged runs and proven weight

js911, you too!

I sincerely commend you for thinking so much outside the box and taking the challenge. Where I differ with you is in thinking that you have discovered the secret of Porsche horsepower and that other highly respected Porsche tuners are inept, you really have ruined it all there.

Let your numbers speak for themselves, put your car to test the proper way, with datalogger and full transparency on weight, and no boost levels and fuel excuses like we often see, and then let's talk about it without any show off.

Trust me I would be the happiest to know that the MAF that my tuner has been using for a long while now (Ford) on others' customers cars, will give me better results than my expensive and not very friendly pressure sensing system. I estimate that I "only" have around 620-640 real Porsche HP at 1.2 Bar based on my 5.6seconds 100-200kph run in this heat. So what happened with your revolutionary twin MAF experiment?

Most of us know TurboKraft, most of us have been around here for a long while now and most of us have seen many Rennlisters come and go with many crazy claims. Remember, everyone's tuner is the best in the world

Jussi

I don't understand why you don't agree that these 993TTs can be tuned easily for over 600 hps. You just need, for example, 2*GT2871R, RS cams, 3.8L, TwinSpark, 3rd fuel pump, good flowing intake and free flowing exhaust system and then the man who can reconfigure stock Motronic for that combination. There is no any magic for that, just simple doing..
I don't want to dis' any people, I just share my experiments

Jussi

I believe you. Protomotive 3.8 TS can do that. There isn't any barrier for that "magic" 600hp limit.. just enough knowledge is needed..

Jussi

Don't understand me wrong. I haven't ruined anything. I just wanted to help others who also want to use MAF based system in highly tuned 993TTs. That stock MAF isn't enough for +600hp and I haven't found that solution from here, so I discovered one possible choice myself and told it here for help people who have similar problems.

You have showed here your 700hp dyno result from Protomotive, what happened for that? Anyway, I don't believe that from 100 to 200 kph in 5.6 seconds comes from the car which have only 620 or 640. This is simple physics:
F=m*a. Send me your datalog where you accelerate with one gear on the flat asphalt, lets say 5th gear from 2000 rpm to 7000 rpm and tell your gearratio for that. Also weight, Cd, frontal area, tire specs and I can show your dyno chart. But I believe, you can also do it yourself. You will surely get more than that 640hp!

That twin MAF project was one possible choice because I couldn't find big enough single MAF, those what I found was outputting frequency signal, not 0-5V signal. I already bought second stock MAF for that project but some evening when I was surfing on net, I found that Ford Lighting 100mm MAF with 0-5V output. So that was much easier to adapt and try and it worked very well..

OK, I remember that

Jussi

People have asked pictures privately, so here is one picture from installation.
installation

And here is one test with hot engine, 21 degree, about 1650kg, soft start = no wheel spinning, lazy gear changes. Speed signal is from OBD, refresh rate 4hz.
acceleration
Sorry Jean and TB, I don't have better measurement yet..

Jean

js911

As I said, it is great that you share your learnings and thank you, honestly.

What I meant by ruining it, is when you make fun of builders with 20+ years of racing and Porsche engine building experience didn't think about slapping a pair of Garretts, and get 700HP, or while having all the Bosch Motorsport engineers almost in their payroll, they did not think about asking for a better MAF that would take them beyond 600 FWHP.
As to your above quote, I find it almost funny to see my exact words repeated by someone else, and being told back to me Did you get hold of my spreadhseet model by any chance? If not, I would love to send you my logs and then you getting back to me with your graph, even from 5-7k RPMs, at the end of the day this is where peak HP is. We can compare outcomes.

Finally, why do you think that you know better than me my own estimates for my own engine based on my 100-200kph, what is the basis of the calculation? I should usually be optimistic not pessimistic about my numbers

Keep up the good work about sharing your progress, just be a little more realistic about your claims, and thinking that none of this has been done before dozens of times, that's all.

TB993tt

Where to start....... Spend a few hours one day reading through the archives on this forum.
Look at some simple facts. Most recently my tuner's engines powered the conquering Alzen turbo 996 with Bosch factory support. They developed a turbo traction control system for Porsche during the Alzen development.
They built the engine for the EDO 'ring record holding 996tt and the engine for the Cargraphic Tuner GP winning 996RS and 997RS......

You say it is simple, use RS cams ? Well why did RS remove the RS cams and test three different (mechanical) profiles in conjunction with different new hybrid KKK race supplied (yes that is the KKK race dept) turbos on their very expensive engine dyno (same type as used by Ferrari F1) before signing off my lame sub 600hp motor ?
They are fools ? I am being ripped off ? (they didn't charge me any extra for all the testing and time building up and on/off engine dyno)

I accept that 993tt engines can be built and a peak reading of 6XXhp can be gotten but you are not talking about a level of drivability sustainability and reliability that Porsche would sign off.

And I love to read about your stuff, but please carry on educating yourself. If I were you I would be looking at the Elmoscan software -the way they do their road dyno throws all sorts of flags up to me, they get the wrong car weight to begin with then an arbitary 18% driveline loss is chucked in to make a "dyno curve" just like the one in Paul Frere's book - pretty amateurish IMO, doesn't hold much hope for their other stuff

NO..... I'm Spartacus

Stummel

If that 6.5 seconds 100-200kph is accurate it is half a second faster than the 542hp RS-tuning 996gt2 with 2wd.

He is way faster than a Turbo R or a CTR2.

I think he is near 600hp - if that is reliable and sustainable or just peak hp we will see.

Jussi

No, I don't make any fun. How do you think about that?

I don't know about your speadsheet model. F=ma is very common equation and also rolling and wind resistanse equations. I know very well these mathematics and physics because I need these in my work..

Yep, just send me your accelerationg data and all needed parameters and I will calculate same power and torque curve than you because these are not your or mine equations or calculations, they are physics laws.

I didn't say that I know better anything than you..
I just comment that time, 5.6 seconds, for that 100 to 200 kmh acceleration. I doubt that your estimate (620-640hp) isn't enough for that time.. Your car must have more power, like in that Protomotive dyno graph..

Jussi

I don't know about their work and system. And I don't want to commit myself on the matter.
I just said what is one possible way to achieve +600 hp or even 700hp
and that better IC is not necessary needed for that if only it helps things..

Jean

Yes I know that I can do it myself, since I posted this a few months back:
So, can you please tell me what my HP and torque is for this data point only (for simplicity purposes)..We can later draw the whole dyno graph if you would like to, just after we can reconcile our data for this point first.

Long G: 0.40
Speed: 129 Mph
CD: 0.34
Area: 1.93
Stock 993TT gearbox: 5th gear
Total weight: 3300 lbs
Tires: 305 x 30 x18



BTW, your run looks more like a 6.8-6.9 than a 6.5 second run from 100-200kph , and the OBD port takes the data from the speed sensor, which is far from being accurate. I expect another incremental 1/2 second at least when you will run a GPS datalogger, hopefully you can do the test soon.

biiig-hp

I know for a fact that engine was never quoted to have 800hp by Bob.

Tb. I'm sure RS are without a doubt one of the best in Europe. But you can't discredit the reputable tuners on this side of the pond, Bob being one of them.

MOD500

Hark and indeed Hail, js.

Some serious claims you postulate.

As one of the lost boys who wasted money on the German way so it seems, I am keen to see real data from your motor via AX22 or the like.

Cheers,


M. Mouse.

TB993tt

Not intending to discredit Bob Holcombe - its just the engine I refer to had one of his "Mode" intercoolers and Garrett turbos (which was what js was bigging up) it was actually built by FVD AFAIK