mags993tt

Hi guys,

I have read a few times about first gear getting bent from over exuberant standing starts and I guess the 4WD means all the power gets transferred into the gear box rather than tyre smoke...I'm wondering if the PO did a few of these - My gear lever vibrates from side to side in first gear sometimes under power though other times it hardly vibrates at all - I imagine that means one or two teeth are bent but the others are ok and it is just luck in terms of which teeth are used every time I engage first gear? I'm not a mechanic so I may be speaking crap...

So... 1)Is this indeed what my symptoms indicate. 2)If I leave it will it get worse/ruin something else/is it bad 3)How much work is involved in fixing it - how expensive is it / is it worth it? The gear box is otherwise very smooth, engages all gears very easily and doesn't balk or crunch from first to second cold or hot as many on the 993 forum seem to suffer from so I am loathe to do anything if not essential for fear of messing something else up...

Many thanks in advance
M

Anthony_Vince

I believe there was a first gear update on the '97 model, essentially strengthening it so as to prevent warping. Perhaps this is the update you need.. Common sense suggests that if something is worn or measurably getting worse then theres a good chance other components will get affected in the gearbox. Bitter experience suggests it will probably be expensive (£1500+).

My car used to make a whining noise in 1st, I was told by AFN this happened alot when they were new, they would change them under warranty but the noise persisted.

I would monitor the noise over time for a while, perhaps change the gearbox oil and see if anything metallic comes out.

good luck

mags993tt

Anthony, It is a '98 MY car. I wasn't aware of the update - thanks for the tip. Does that mean it can't be warped? Could the intermittent vibration be normal? I feel it is not normal because it is sometimes there and sometimes not...
M

PS although the car is low mileage it was given its 48k mile service before I bought it which I believe involved changing the gearbox oil.

Jack

The vibration you describe is not indicative of a bent first gear---it's normal.

mags993tt

[quote]Originally posted by Jack:
<strong>The vibration you describe is not indicative of a bent first gear---it's normal.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Thanks Jack - I just find it strange how once in say every 4 standing starts if I rest my hand on the lever I feel it 'wobble' from side to side (in the same plane as neutral ie not backwards and forwards) though the other 3 times there is hardly any movement at all. It is this inconsitency that led me to believe there was something amiss. Do you get the same thing with your tt?
M

Jack

I can at times feel vibrations or, more aptly, see the shift **** vibrate. I say the latter, because I do not rest my hand on the shift **** while driving--doing so is not good for the tranny.

mags993tt

[quote]Originally posted by Jack:
<strong>I can at times feel vibrations or, more aptly, see the shift **** vibrate. I say the latter, because I do not rest my hand on the shift **** while driving--doing so is not good for the tranny. </strong><hr></blockquote>

ok - thanks. By the way totally agree about not resting hand on the gear lever. I think they are designed to have some play and stopping this play means the forces are all concentrated in the wrong place. Seem to remember hearing a common problem on Citroens was having to have 5th gear replaced because people used to rest there hand on it while cruising down the motorway.

Out of interest - you mention that a vibrating shift **** is not indicative of the bent first gear phenomenon - can you tell me what symptoms you would expect if it were the case?

cheers
M

Anthony_Vince

Mags- now i think about it the gearstick on my car wobbles from left to right in 1st gear. Its turbo specific because my 993c2 didn't do it. The gearbox on the turbo just feels alot stronger and robust; i think its safe to assume the wobble is normal.

SundayDriver

[quote]Originally posted by mags993tt:
<strong>

ok - thanks. By the way totally agree about not resting hand on the gear lever. I think they are designed to have some play and stopping this play means the forces are all concentrated in the wrong place. Seem to remember hearing a common problem on Citroens was having to have 5th gear replaced because people used to rest there hand on it while cruising down the motorway.

Out of interest - you mention that a vibrating shift **** is not indicative of the bent first gear phenomenon - can you tell me what symptoms you would expect if it were the case?

cheers
M</strong><hr></blockquote>

If first gear were bent enough to shake the shifter, I am pretty sure the gear teeth would have long since broken off.

The symptoms are twofold:
1. Cruise at ~3000 in 1st gear. Back off and listen for a whining sound.
2. Downshift into first. Again a whining sound in this process indicates a benf first gear.

97's have an improved part but are not immune to bending first gear. All that torque and AWD put huge stress on the transmission. BTW - I have the gear set from one that was bent. It is very difficult to even see any damage to the teeth. It is only evident in that the wear pattern is furhter out ot the edge of the gear teeth than it should be. This gear exhibited the noises I refer to above, but clearly there was no other damage. However, if left and abused, you can break the teeth off the gears and that can get real expensive.

Hope this helps.

mags993tt

Thanks for the detailed explanation Mark. It's more subtle than I thought then but it sure puts my mind at rest. I'll have a close listen next time I drive the car but I have a feeling it will be a bit like listening for tappety valve train noises...ie there is always some noise if you listen hard enough but how much is too much...

Any idea from a design point of view why first gear exhibits this tendency to wobble or shake sometimes and not others?
M