Two Sides to Every Story...
08-17-2001, 02:01 PM
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Track Day
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Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Putney, VT
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Two Sides to Every Story...
Dear Rennlist Members,
Recently, member Konrad Alvarino has blanketed the entire Rennlist with a grossly skewed tale of woe that pretty much paints Windward Performance Products, Inc. (and myself) as the "anti-christ" in the Porsche performance arena.
For those of you who do not wish to read an extremely long post (which this is) let me just say here and now that there are two sides to every story, and his does not even closely approximate the truth. He did suggest that (until I hung up on him) I had been helpful and courteous, and that is true. I will not, however, subject myself to ranting, raving, and profanity from any customer. I will hang up every time, and if you can't handle that sort of rejection, then there is no shame in therapy.
I am now going to present the truth.
This regrettable situation did not unfold at all as Mr. Alvarino suggests, and he has neglected some very important points, and lied about others.
First, let it be known that he threatened me with a serious Rennlist flaming if we did not bow to his completely unreasonable demands, and he obviously made good on his promise. Unfortunately, he has shown neither honor nor shame in his post regarding his deliberate misrepresentation of the facts.
As many in the Porsche community may remember, there was a "drought" of H&R coil-over kits in the U.S. for awhile. During this time, Mr. Alvarino wished to obtain one for his 993 Twin Turbo. Upon checking, I was able to inform him that we had one H&R coil-over #29590-2 in stock that was missing the spherical-bearing upper camber plates and rear upper shock mounts. I offered to furnish the very nice E.R.P. units in their place for no additional charge. (Our customers will be familiar with the E.R.P. line--they are arguably some of the nicest components available, and are much more expensive than their H&R counterparts.)
He not only agreed, but thanked me, stating that this was a much better alternative than waiting the 6-8 weeks that H&R was quoting to get more of these systems in from Germany.
The system was sent to him, and what ensued was a nightmare. He did not understand how to install it, and was quite indignant and upset when he found out that the car had to be re-aligned and corner balanced after the installation of the suspension! At this time, I suggested (in the nicest, friendliest manner that I could) that he may be a bit over his head on this project and should consult a local shop for installation.
He then got mad and wanted to ship it back. I agreed, based on the assumption that it was in "as-new" condition. When I received it, it was inspected and found that it was very scratched, dented, and not saleable at all, let alone as new. (He did not even do us the courtesy of using original packaging--it was simply all thrown together in a big box with no packing materials, and arrived in horrible condition, ripped, with bushings and hardware dropping out of the mutilated packaging.)
I called him, and told him that it would not be accepted. After numerous phone calls, we agreed on a compromise--I would honor the refund in the form of a store credit to be used toward another purchase, minus the money necessary to replace the missing and damaged components. He agreed.
It should also be noted (and our customers are all aware of this) that prior to shipping any order, the customer signs off on a confirmation sheet that clearly states our return policy and re-stock fees.
Unfortunately, after agreeing to this, he did a chargeback on his credit card. We have submitted all documentation to both banks, and (after extensive exchanges) both banks ruled in our favor regarding the re-stocking fee, having clearly illustrated Mr. Alvarinos signature agreeing to these terms for this sale.
Mr. Alvarino neglected to mention that he already fought this battle and lost, and the whole situation could have been avoided completely by adhering to our agreement.
Instead, he has chosen to take the low-road.
As he said, I did my best to remain courteous to him throughout this ordeal, and I (and everyone else here) takes customer service seriously. We are NOT however, LLBean or Nordstroms, and Mr. Alvarino was not trying to return a sweater. There are some different issues at stake when it is a custom coil-over system for a $100K Porsche 993 Twin Turbo, and I did my best to keep him happy, but that does not extend to accepting a $2800.00 box of shrapnel for a refund. He did well to even recieve a partial credit, and we now have a scratched, dented, coil-over system that will probably set on our shelves for quite some time.
Sorry for all that this did not work out, but realize that anyone, at any time, can post anything they wish and (unfortunately) people will crawl out from under rocks everywhere to become party to a good, old fashioned Rennlist flaming.
I sincerely hope you don't believe everything you read on the internet.
The Rennlist is an invaluable resource for any Porschephile, and it is too bad that it is used as a forum to spread lies and grind axes, and not for the wealth of technical information and experience that it contains.
If you need performance items for a Porsche, we will continue to go above and beyond to provide the best products, the best service, the lowest prices and the best technical support available in the industry.
As for you, Mr. Alvarino, I sincerely hope you find another purveyor with whom to build a constructive relationship that will enhance your enjoyment of owning that very special Porsche.
Thanks for your attention, and sorry for the length of this post.
Best Regards,
Dan
Windward Performance Products, Inc.
Recently, member Konrad Alvarino has blanketed the entire Rennlist with a grossly skewed tale of woe that pretty much paints Windward Performance Products, Inc. (and myself) as the "anti-christ" in the Porsche performance arena.
For those of you who do not wish to read an extremely long post (which this is) let me just say here and now that there are two sides to every story, and his does not even closely approximate the truth. He did suggest that (until I hung up on him) I had been helpful and courteous, and that is true. I will not, however, subject myself to ranting, raving, and profanity from any customer. I will hang up every time, and if you can't handle that sort of rejection, then there is no shame in therapy.
I am now going to present the truth.
This regrettable situation did not unfold at all as Mr. Alvarino suggests, and he has neglected some very important points, and lied about others.
First, let it be known that he threatened me with a serious Rennlist flaming if we did not bow to his completely unreasonable demands, and he obviously made good on his promise. Unfortunately, he has shown neither honor nor shame in his post regarding his deliberate misrepresentation of the facts.
As many in the Porsche community may remember, there was a "drought" of H&R coil-over kits in the U.S. for awhile. During this time, Mr. Alvarino wished to obtain one for his 993 Twin Turbo. Upon checking, I was able to inform him that we had one H&R coil-over #29590-2 in stock that was missing the spherical-bearing upper camber plates and rear upper shock mounts. I offered to furnish the very nice E.R.P. units in their place for no additional charge. (Our customers will be familiar with the E.R.P. line--they are arguably some of the nicest components available, and are much more expensive than their H&R counterparts.)
He not only agreed, but thanked me, stating that this was a much better alternative than waiting the 6-8 weeks that H&R was quoting to get more of these systems in from Germany.
The system was sent to him, and what ensued was a nightmare. He did not understand how to install it, and was quite indignant and upset when he found out that the car had to be re-aligned and corner balanced after the installation of the suspension! At this time, I suggested (in the nicest, friendliest manner that I could) that he may be a bit over his head on this project and should consult a local shop for installation.
He then got mad and wanted to ship it back. I agreed, based on the assumption that it was in "as-new" condition. When I received it, it was inspected and found that it was very scratched, dented, and not saleable at all, let alone as new. (He did not even do us the courtesy of using original packaging--it was simply all thrown together in a big box with no packing materials, and arrived in horrible condition, ripped, with bushings and hardware dropping out of the mutilated packaging.)
I called him, and told him that it would not be accepted. After numerous phone calls, we agreed on a compromise--I would honor the refund in the form of a store credit to be used toward another purchase, minus the money necessary to replace the missing and damaged components. He agreed.
It should also be noted (and our customers are all aware of this) that prior to shipping any order, the customer signs off on a confirmation sheet that clearly states our return policy and re-stock fees.
Unfortunately, after agreeing to this, he did a chargeback on his credit card. We have submitted all documentation to both banks, and (after extensive exchanges) both banks ruled in our favor regarding the re-stocking fee, having clearly illustrated Mr. Alvarinos signature agreeing to these terms for this sale.
Mr. Alvarino neglected to mention that he already fought this battle and lost, and the whole situation could have been avoided completely by adhering to our agreement.
Instead, he has chosen to take the low-road.
As he said, I did my best to remain courteous to him throughout this ordeal, and I (and everyone else here) takes customer service seriously. We are NOT however, LLBean or Nordstroms, and Mr. Alvarino was not trying to return a sweater. There are some different issues at stake when it is a custom coil-over system for a $100K Porsche 993 Twin Turbo, and I did my best to keep him happy, but that does not extend to accepting a $2800.00 box of shrapnel for a refund. He did well to even recieve a partial credit, and we now have a scratched, dented, coil-over system that will probably set on our shelves for quite some time.
Sorry for all that this did not work out, but realize that anyone, at any time, can post anything they wish and (unfortunately) people will crawl out from under rocks everywhere to become party to a good, old fashioned Rennlist flaming.
I sincerely hope you don't believe everything you read on the internet.
The Rennlist is an invaluable resource for any Porschephile, and it is too bad that it is used as a forum to spread lies and grind axes, and not for the wealth of technical information and experience that it contains.
If you need performance items for a Porsche, we will continue to go above and beyond to provide the best products, the best service, the lowest prices and the best technical support available in the industry.
As for you, Mr. Alvarino, I sincerely hope you find another purveyor with whom to build a constructive relationship that will enhance your enjoyment of owning that very special Porsche.
Thanks for your attention, and sorry for the length of this post.
Best Regards,
Dan
Windward Performance Products, Inc.
08-19-2001, 02:14 PM
#2
Instructor
Join Date: May 2001
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 188
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Wow! I came back from a nice weekend out of town , and read this post. I would like to clarify a few points in Dan's email which are different from the truth:
1. I never used yelled or used profanity in my conversation with Dan. It is not my style.
2. The "offer" to send non-H&R parts was never made. The parts arrived at my house and I called Dan to clarify what I received. It was only then I found out I had differnt parts.
3. I am not a certified mechanic, but there are people on this list who can vouch for my technical abilities. I feel that I am quite capable of installing a suspension system on my own. I do work on my car because it is fun, and it is relaxing to me, not because I have to. The bit about not know the car would need an alignment? Please....
4. The parts were shipped back in original containers in the condition I received them in. The mounts shipped to me were not new, and even had evidence of rust. Can't do that in a few days. Interesting that Dan mentions that he called and told me the return was unacceptable, as this was never discussed in the multiple times I called them. I have e-mails traded with Dan making reference to the received shipment and that the $2800 credit "must have gone through, and I will fax you the credit voucher". None of this was ever done. I guess these emails were not part of the documentation they submitted to the banks....
5. There was no phone call in which store credit was discussed. I was holding off on any purchase until a full credit was received into my account, as any reasonable person would. Again, I have emails where I am asking for credit back n my AMEX dating to mid May.
6. A partial credit has been received in my account, but I am still owed the re-stocking fee. This is the first time I have asked AMEX for this, as I have NEVER had problems with suppliers. No finality to this issue at this time.
7. As for the personal insults (no Honor, shame, lies, crawl under the rocks, etc.) They will remain unanswered by me.
Guys, the purpose of my original post was to share with the list my bad experience with a parts dealer. I have nothing personal to gain from this (exept maybe to get my money back). With several choices for suppliers of parts, why should anybody risk the potential trouble associated with doing business with questionable suppliers? I for one wish I had read about Jim's experience before my purchase. I will continue to share notable experiences with the list, and I hope other people will too.
1. I never used yelled or used profanity in my conversation with Dan. It is not my style.
2. The "offer" to send non-H&R parts was never made. The parts arrived at my house and I called Dan to clarify what I received. It was only then I found out I had differnt parts.
3. I am not a certified mechanic, but there are people on this list who can vouch for my technical abilities. I feel that I am quite capable of installing a suspension system on my own. I do work on my car because it is fun, and it is relaxing to me, not because I have to. The bit about not know the car would need an alignment? Please....
4. The parts were shipped back in original containers in the condition I received them in. The mounts shipped to me were not new, and even had evidence of rust. Can't do that in a few days. Interesting that Dan mentions that he called and told me the return was unacceptable, as this was never discussed in the multiple times I called them. I have e-mails traded with Dan making reference to the received shipment and that the $2800 credit "must have gone through, and I will fax you the credit voucher". None of this was ever done. I guess these emails were not part of the documentation they submitted to the banks....
5. There was no phone call in which store credit was discussed. I was holding off on any purchase until a full credit was received into my account, as any reasonable person would. Again, I have emails where I am asking for credit back n my AMEX dating to mid May.
6. A partial credit has been received in my account, but I am still owed the re-stocking fee. This is the first time I have asked AMEX for this, as I have NEVER had problems with suppliers. No finality to this issue at this time.
7. As for the personal insults (no Honor, shame, lies, crawl under the rocks, etc.) They will remain unanswered by me.
Guys, the purpose of my original post was to share with the list my bad experience with a parts dealer. I have nothing personal to gain from this (exept maybe to get my money back). With several choices for suppliers of parts, why should anybody risk the potential trouble associated with doing business with questionable suppliers? I for one wish I had read about Jim's experience before my purchase. I will continue to share notable experiences with the list, and I hope other people will too.
