Gruppe M air intake
08-27-2003, 03:32 PM
#16
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Originally posted by superyellowfly
TB993TT,
I think you're the second person i know to also deduce this... my guess the benefit is cold air... above anything else. spool up time and response is completely exhaust dependent...
hence my involvement in the solenoid controlled down pipe development.
logically, if the rate limiting factor is the bottleneck at the intake, then it would be quite safe to say that positive pressure will have certainly improve the flow of air. At higher speeds, ram air effect can easily create fairly sizable amounts of positive pressure. Any takers?
TB993TT,
I think you're the second person i know to also deduce this... my guess the benefit is cold air... above anything else. spool up time and response is completely exhaust dependent...
hence my involvement in the solenoid controlled down pipe development.
logically, if the rate limiting factor is the bottleneck at the intake, then it would be quite safe to say that positive pressure will have certainly improve the flow of air. At higher speeds, ram air effect can easily create fairly sizable amounts of positive pressure. Any takers?
What is this "solenoid controlled down pipe development" . Is it a valve which diverts exhaust from the muffler directly into the atmosphere ? If yes - how far are you down the road with it ? It would be of interest to me.
Yes I'll buy your positive pressure logic (good to justify mod expenditures)
08-27-2003, 04:45 PM
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Superyellowfly
Agreed on the ram air effect. I would think that the cooler air has got to be a benefit. I had always heard that on this car there was no power increase with a cone type intake but it appears the Guppe M design provides cleaner air with a bit of pressure with the stock or similar rear wing design.
Where exactly are you talking about relieving pressure?
Agreed on the ram air effect. I would think that the cooler air has got to be a benefit. I had always heard that on this car there was no power increase with a cone type intake but it appears the Guppe M design provides cleaner air with a bit of pressure with the stock or similar rear wing design.
Where exactly are you talking about relieving pressure?
08-28-2003, 12:57 AM
#18
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TB993, Keith,
i think restriction is the key to releasing the last few ponies from the TT.
There are a host of carbon type boxes that look exactly like the gruppe M box... that cost less too. gruppe M was developed in japan i believe.
i think ultimately the airbox from the factory usually is the best design, my experience in other vehicles have also taught me that... dont see why the porsche will be any different. Induction noise is something else
The solenoid controlled diverter valve i plan to build will be pretty hardcore... it will vent directly after the turbo's out put... directly into the atmosphere. the idea is to keep the outlet extremely short and smooth. The heat will be tremendous and the noise unbearable, but thats ok for the track
The noise will be fearsome... but the power should be instantaneous, no back pressure so to speak
Another immediate advantage is keeping the overall engine temp cooler via heat soak from the mufflers and cats.(i live in the tropics)
... Of course, the beauty is in the ability to shut the valve and allow the normal mufflers and cats to function and sound like a normal car as soon as i leave the track.
development and building will be relatively quick... long term testing and reliability is another thing... As princeton mentioned, the stainless solenoid may not take the stress of heat cycling.
if it pulls through, it will be one tough biscuit, i tell you
i think restriction is the key to releasing the last few ponies from the TT.
There are a host of carbon type boxes that look exactly like the gruppe M box... that cost less too. gruppe M was developed in japan i believe.
i think ultimately the airbox from the factory usually is the best design, my experience in other vehicles have also taught me that... dont see why the porsche will be any different. Induction noise is something else
The solenoid controlled diverter valve i plan to build will be pretty hardcore... it will vent directly after the turbo's out put... directly into the atmosphere. the idea is to keep the outlet extremely short and smooth. The heat will be tremendous and the noise unbearable, but thats ok for the track
The noise will be fearsome... but the power should be instantaneous, no back pressure so to speakAnother immediate advantage is keeping the overall engine temp cooler via heat soak from the mufflers and cats.(i live in the tropics)
... Of course, the beauty is in the ability to shut the valve and allow the normal mufflers and cats to function and sound like a normal car as soon as i leave the track.
development and building will be relatively quick... long term testing and reliability is another thing... As princeton mentioned, the stainless solenoid may not take the stress of heat cycling.
if it pulls through, it will be one tough biscuit, i tell you
08-28-2003, 06:30 AM
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Originally posted by superyellowfly
TB993, Keith,
There are a host of carbon type boxes that look exactly like the gruppe M box... that cost less too. gruppe M was developed in japan i believe.
i think ultimately the airbox from the factory usually is the best design, my experience in other vehicles have also taught me that... dont see why the porsche will be any different. Induction noise is something else
TB993, Keith,
There are a host of carbon type boxes that look exactly like the gruppe M box... that cost less too. gruppe M was developed in japan i believe.
i think ultimately the airbox from the factory usually is the best design, my experience in other vehicles have also taught me that... dont see why the porsche will be any different. Induction noise is something else
Who else makes a box like the GruppeM for the 993tt
I couldn't find anyone.The factory design is excellent up to about 450PS over that one can physically see the side of the air box being sucked in under load on the engine dyno - this is why the tuners add the holes (as you say the holes may be added for other reasons on N/A cars
) So another solution (which ideally mimmics the factory's) is needed to stop the warmer air being sucked in.Last edited by TB993tt; 08-28-2003 at 06:54 AM.
08-28-2003, 07:36 AM
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TB993TT
agreed, the airbox needs to be wider, and also volumetrically correct inorder to produce the desired effect. my upload code doesn't work... once i sort it out i'll post it on the board.
A small japanese tuner by the name APR makes these boxes as well. They don't look as impressive without the carbon weave, but function is all i'm really concerned about. I'll include the URL when i find it
in anycase, we should get R Linton on this case!
here it is
agreed, the airbox needs to be wider, and also volumetrically correct inorder to produce the desired effect. my upload code doesn't work... once i sort it out i'll post it on the board.
A small japanese tuner by the name APR makes these boxes as well. They don't look as impressive without the carbon weave, but function is all i'm really concerned about. I'll include the URL when i find it
in anycase, we should get R Linton on this case!
here it is
Last edited by ruffy; 08-28-2003 at 04:28 PM.
08-28-2003, 04:35 PM
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Superyellowfly
That looks like it would probably do the job. Coincidentally the mechanic I use is sponsored b GruppeM and they agreed that if they couldn't make it fit (with my TTP intercooler) then they would take it back so for me it was worth the extra $$ for peace of mind -also that carbon fibre weave is pretty.
That looks like it would probably do the job. Coincidentally the mechanic I use is sponsored b GruppeM and they agreed that if they couldn't make it fit (with my TTP intercooler) then they would take it back so for me it was worth the extra $$ for peace of mind -also that carbon fibre weave is pretty.
09-11-2003, 01:42 PM
#25
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got any more pics of the exhaust bypass?... looks really good with nice welding
http://www.apr-jp.com/top.html
http://www.imec.co.jp/
http://www.dees911.com/
knock yourself out dude
http://www.apr-jp.com/top.html
http://www.imec.co.jp/
http://www.dees911.com/
knock yourself out dude
09-12-2003, 06:36 AM
#27
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any angular shots, such that i can look at the profile... and of course figure out how they get a tight seal on the gates.
our 993 exhaust bays will prove to be incredibly hard to fit such a large contraption
our 993 exhaust bays will prove to be incredibly hard to fit such a large contraption
09-16-2003, 03:55 AM
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Hey guys
How about fitting one of these BMC CDA to our cars.
http://www.bmcairfilters.com/infoCDA.asp
What do you guys think?
John
'96 993tt
'86 930
How about fitting one of these BMC CDA to our cars.
http://www.bmcairfilters.com/infoCDA.asp
What do you guys think?
John
'96 993tt
'86 930
